Well guys,
Just being curious, are there any plans for UMTS support? I remember Harald said something about an ASN.1 PER was an obstacle to start for UMTS support. Are there also nanoBTS for UMTS, I only know of 2G devices... It was just quite on the list :p
Greetz,
Nordin :-)
On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 03:51:29PM +0200, Nordin wrote:
Just being curious, are there any plans for UMTS support?
There are lots of plans but only 24 hours per day and very few developers.
So as soon as you or anyone else starts working on it, we will be happy to merge it :)
I remember Harald said something about an ASN.1 PER was an obstacle to start for UMTS support.
ASN.1 PER makes things a bit more uncomfortable but its definitely possible nonetheless. Either by implementing those few message types by hand as hex-coded templates in C, or by using a Erlang program linked to a C process (the C interface for sending/receiving messages to/from Erlang processes is quite small and easy to use) or by adding the respective bits to asn1c.
Are there also nanoBTS for UMTS, I only know of 2G devices... It was just quite on the list :p
Well, there are various 3G femtocells out there, including Alcatel/Lucent model (using RANAP), Ubiquisys (using UMA) and ip.access/Cisco using URSL.
Ok guys,
Does anyone has a Node B <---> RNC trace to analize it in Wireshark? Especially for an ipaccess BTS (or Node B) as there's a good chance to purchase one. I saw one I'm interested in that has a productnr: 206 A from ipaccess.
If someone already played with such device can provide me a pcap trace, I'll study it and can give a try to kickstart UMTS support :p
Peace.
On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 02:32:52PM +0200, Nordin wrote:
If someone already played with such device can provide me a pcap trace, I'll study it and can give a try to kickstart UMTS support :p
You can look at the USRL dissector that is part of the wireshark sources that ip.access had to release under GPL. You can find it at http://ftp.gpl-devices.org/pub/vendors/ipaccess/wireshark/
I have some experience with ASN.1 coding/decoding, but not with PER, and I have no experience with any 3gpp or mobile documents or standards.
I'm interested to look at ASN.1 PER encoding in spare time, if someone can point me to documents that explain where ASN.1 is used (the purpose), and to point me to documents that holds ASN.1 syntax needed for this purpose.
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Nordin bouchtaoui@gmail.com wrote:
Well guys,
Just being curious, are there any plans for UMTS support? I remember Harald said something about an ASN.1 PER was an obstacle to start for UMTS support. Are there also nanoBTS for UMTS, I only know of 2G devices... It was just quite on the list :p
Greetz,
Nordin :-)
On 9-6-2010 20:35, Milos Prodanovic wrote:
I have some experience with ASN.1 coding/decoding, but not with PER, and I have no experience with any 3gpp or mobile documents or standards.
I'm interested to look at ASN.1 PER encoding in spare time, if someone can point me to documents that explain where ASN.1 is used (the purpose), and to point me to documents that holds ASN.1 syntax needed for this purpose.
I'm currently studying the UMTS specs to get a general understanding and focus on the Iub interface part to find the basic messages that are similar to the OML/RSL part of GSM. As far as I understand there are parts, if not all, of the messages encoded in ASN.1 PER, even unaligned as Harald already told us before. I don't know much of the details, maybe Harald can put more light on this.
You might want to experiment with PER encoded messages to play with and on the wiki you can find pdfs about ASN.1 and PER. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packed_Encoding_Rules
But at the moment I found these interesting docs about Iub interface, that's like the GSM's Abis interface for UMTS: http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/25_series/25.430/25430-650.zip http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/25_series/25.433/25433-6h0.zip (this is a huge file, almost 1000 pages!) http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/25_series/25.435/25435-650.zip http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/25_series/25.427/25427-680.zip
As far as I understand we can divide Iub into two networklayers, one is the Radio Network Layer and the other is Transport Network Layer. According to the specs the Tansport Network Layer is based on ATM/AALx /etc.. or SCTP/IP combination, but I assume ip.access's 3G femtocell (the one I want to focus on) is just based on tcp/ip, just like the nanobts.
The Radio Network Layer can be split in two parts, the Control Plane and the User Plane. The Control Plane is based on NBAP which is doing signaling for Node B, just like OML for the BTS. So I think that's an important part to start with as this part is to control the Node B to get it on the air. The other part is the User Plane and is based on Common channels and Dedicated channels, comaparable with the RSL layer.
Also for those who didn't know yet, UMTS doesn't work with channels/timeslots like GSM, it works with so called cells. I don't know the details yet, but what I remember is that you have to configure each cell for a certain purpose, like DCH, PCH etc...
That's what I found about the UMTS so far, if I misunderstood some things about the UMTS, don't hesitate to correct me. If someone can add more information about it in plain English, that would be great, cause all the new acronyms makes me a bit dizzy.
Peace...
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Nordinbouchtaoui@gmail.com wrote:
Well guys,
Just being curious, are there any plans for UMTS support? I remember Harald said something about an ASN.1 PER was an obstacle to start for UMTS support. Are there also nanoBTS for UMTS, I only know of 2G devices... It was just quite on the list :p
Greetz,
Nordin :-)
was also looking on the Iub specs today and my head hurts :(.
For femtos the default interface would be Iuh, which from what I understand is the Home Node B adapted version of the NodeB Iub. Then you'd need a sort of Access Controller in the form of an Home Node B Gateway as the next hop, but otherwise it seems to be less of packaging hassle, or?
http://www.tech-invite.com/Ti-3gpp-standards-25b.html#ts-25444 - data transport in 10 pages, CS with RTP multiplexed in UDP/IP, PS with GTP-U/UDP/IP http://www.tech-invite.com/Ti-3gpp-standards-25b.html#ts-25468 - RANAP User Adaptation - SCTP/IP http://www.tech-invite.com/Ti-3gpp-standards-25b.html#ts-25469 - Home Node B Application Part - SCTP/IP
I was wondering if you looked at this too...
I know that Iub would be the real deal and fortunately this femto has it too. Also probably the advantages are offset but what you loose by requiring one more box, the Home Node B Gw.
Cheers, -Dragos
Nordin wrote:
On 9-6-2010 20:35, Milos Prodanovic wrote:
I have some experience with ASN.1 coding/decoding, but not with PER, and I have no experience with any 3gpp or mobile documents or standards.
I'm interested to look at ASN.1 PER encoding in spare time, if someone can point me to documents that explain where ASN.1 is used (the purpose), and to point me to documents that holds ASN.1 syntax needed for this purpose.
I'm currently studying the UMTS specs to get a general understanding and focus on the Iub interface part to find the basic messages that are similar to the OML/RSL part of GSM. As far as I understand there are parts, if not all, of the messages encoded in ASN.1 PER, even unaligned as Harald already told us before. I don't know much of the details, maybe Harald can put more light on this.
You might want to experiment with PER encoded messages to play with and on the wiki you can find pdfs about ASN.1 and PER. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packed_Encoding_Rules
But at the moment I found these interesting docs about Iub interface, that's like the GSM's Abis interface for UMTS: http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/25_series/25.430/25430-650.zip http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/25_series/25.433/25433-6h0.zip (this is a huge file, almost 1000 pages!) http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/25_series/25.435/25435-650.zip http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/25_series/25.427/25427-680.zip
As far as I understand we can divide Iub into two networklayers, one is the Radio Network Layer and the other is Transport Network Layer. According to the specs the Tansport Network Layer is based on ATM/AALx /etc.. or SCTP/IP combination, but I assume ip.access's 3G femtocell (the one I want to focus on) is just based on tcp/ip, just like the nanobts.
The Radio Network Layer can be split in two parts, the Control Plane and the User Plane. The Control Plane is based on NBAP which is doing signaling for Node B, just like OML for the BTS. So I think that's an important part to start with as this part is to control the Node B to get it on the air. The other part is the User Plane and is based on Common channels and Dedicated channels, comaparable with the RSL layer.
Also for those who didn't know yet, UMTS doesn't work with channels/timeslots like GSM, it works with so called cells. I don't know the details yet, but what I remember is that you have to configure each cell for a certain purpose, like DCH, PCH etc...
That's what I found about the UMTS so far, if I misunderstood some things about the UMTS, don't hesitate to correct me. If someone can add more information about it in plain English, that would be great, cause all the new acronyms makes me a bit dizzy.
Peace...
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Nordinbouchtaoui@gmail.com wrote:
Well guys,
Just being curious, are there any plans for UMTS support? I remember Harald said something about an ASN.1 PER was an obstacle to start for UMTS support. Are there also nanoBTS for UMTS, I only know of 2G devices... It was just quite on the list :p
Greetz,
Nordin :-)
-
Dragos Vingarzan -
Harald Welte -
Milos Prodanovic -
Nordin