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4317 discussions

Re: LMT cable pinout
by Dieter Spaar 17 Apr '09

17 Apr '09

Hello Matthias, On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 11:44:06 +0200, "Matthias Wenzel" <bs11(a)mazzoo.de> wrote: > > can someone post the pinout of the rs232 LMT cable - db9 on one end, and > the 8pin header on the bs11 on the other side. If you look at the BS-11 interface (Antenne connectors top), its the upper 8-pin connector: The four E1 BNC connectors are above here. (Rx) x x x x (right pin: Gnd) (Tx) x x x x (right pin: +5V) | + LMT You just need a three wire connection (Gnd, Rx, Tx). Tx/Rx is from the BS-11 side, so Tx (the lower pin) has to be connected to Rx of the PC. The levels are standard RS-232 level, to be sure just measure the Tx pin, it has a high voltage (ca. +/- 9 Volt). And if someone want to play with the other ports, here is how they are connected: The four E1 BNC connectors are above here. (Rx) x x x x (right pin: Gnd) (Tx) x x x x (right pin: +5V) 1 2 3 1: ? 2: LMT 3: (no COM Port, dont't connect to RS232) (Rx) x x x x (right pin: Gnd) (Tx) x x x x (right pin: +5V) 1 2 3 1: TRX0 L1LAPDmProc 2: TRX0 L3Proc (pwd: L3Proc) 3: TRX0 OEM_Proc (pwd: LAPDOM) (Rx) x x x x (right pin: Gnd) (Tx) x x x x (right pin: +5V) 1 2 3 1: TRX1 L1LAPDmProc 2: TRX1 L3Proc (pwd: L3Proc) 3: TRX1 OEM_Proc (pwd: LAPDOM) When you boot, and the firmware is not yet loaded, you get a prompt and can see a menu. There is a password protected menu, the password is above ("pwd:"). The baud rate is 9600 8n1 (except LMT: 19200 8n1). When the firmware is loaded those menus are no longer there (they are commands in the boot ROM), however if you type "qwertyuiop" (without the quotes, there is no echo) you can enter debug commands in the firmware. Some menus ask for a password, however its empty (just hit return). I have not found really usefull things, but if someone wants to play, feel free to do so and of course post the results if you find something usefull. Disclaimer: Nothing of the above comes from the NDA documentation, its not even mentioned there. All of the above was discovered by having a close look. Best regards, Dieter -- Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de

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Re: AW: BS-11 PLL clock source / calibration
by Dieter Spaar 17 Apr '09

17 Apr '09

Hello Andreas, On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:45:50 +0200, "Andreas.Eversberg" <Andreas.Eversberg(a)versatel.de> wrote: > if you need clock signals, you can use the C4IO clock line of the ISDN > cards. they clock 4096khz. you can use them to transfer clock from one > card to another or to mesure the clock. the E1 card has this clock on > one pin of the PCM connector. (see data sheet) the C4IO is also > available on the HFC-PCI single port card. with an oscilloscope you can > compare. > > in order to retieve the clock from E1 interface in NT-mode, you need to: > > modprobe hfcmulti port=0x200 debug=0x40000 > > watch the dmesg about init process of controller. this will override the > default behavior: provide clock to the NT interface. > > i would suggest to use a resistor of 1K to protect the e1 card. the > signal must not look good, we just need the shift of both signals. Thanks for this tip. I already though about the E1 clock, but its below the 10 MHz limit of the HP8922. I think I have to build a simple frequency counter (I don't have one) and use the reference clock of the HP8922. BTW, there is also a GSM frame pulse available at one of the connectors (one of the J01 pins, I have to look it up). OK, maybe a simple frequency counter is a good reason to finally do something usefull with my FPGA boards ;-) Best regards, Dieter -- Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de

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Re: AW: BS-11 PLL clock source / calibration
by Dieter Spaar 17 Apr '09

17 Apr '09

Hello Andreas, On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:05:16 +0200, "Andreas.Eversberg" <Andreas.Eversberg(a)versatel.de> wrote: > i tested external clock from isdn line yesterday. modern phones, like > the i-phone will not register to the base station. (tested it yesterday > together with other phones). no packet is received by openbsc. so i set > the clock to "locked" and retrieved the clock from my isdn line (layer 1 > up). it did not help at all. the phone found the base station id while > scanning for networks, but the registration did not work. > > is it possible that the provisioning (during startup) is faulty? If I remeber, several iPhones registered to the BS-11 during 25C3. So it should work (however I cannot test it here, but feel free to send my an iPhone for playing ;-) Do you see the test network with the iPhone or does the registration not work ? Have you tried to use the SIM card from a phone which has already registered to the test network ? This way the iPhone would look at the BS-11 first before trying to search for other netwoks. Best regards, Dieter -- Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de

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AW: BS-11 PLL clock source / calibration
by Andreas.Eversberg 17 Apr '09

17 Apr '09

just find pin 118 of the E1 controller on the pcm bus (connector) and compare the clock (4096khz) with pin 54 on the HFC-S PCI ISDN controller. use an oscilloscope and sync it to ISDN interface. one pin higher (on both controllers) you will find 8khz frame clock signal. if the clock differs by 1ppm, the phase of both signals cycles about four times a second. for rough calibration, i would suggest the 8khz signal. it will take 125 seconds for a full phase shift at 1ppm clock skew. -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dieter Spaar [mailto:spaar@mirider.augusta.de] Gesendet: Freitag, 17. April 2009 15:03 An: Andreas.Eversberg Cc: openbsc(a)lists.gnumonks.org Betreff: Re: AW: BS-11 PLL clock source / calibration Hello Andreas, On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:45:50 +0200, "Andreas.Eversberg" <Andreas.Eversberg(a)versatel.de> wrote: > if you need clock signals, you can use the C4IO clock line of the ISDN > cards. they clock 4096khz. you can use them to transfer clock from one > card to another or to mesure the clock. the E1 card has this clock on > one pin of the PCM connector. (see data sheet) the C4IO is also > available on the HFC-PCI single port card. with an oscilloscope you can > compare. > > in order to retieve the clock from E1 interface in NT-mode, you need to: > > modprobe hfcmulti port=0x200 debug=0x40000 > > watch the dmesg about init process of controller. this will override the > default behavior: provide clock to the NT interface. > > i would suggest to use a resistor of 1K to protect the e1 card. the > signal must not look good, we just need the shift of both signals. Thanks for this tip. I already though about the E1 clock, but its below the 10 MHz limit of the HP8922. I think I have to build a simple frequency counter (I don't have one) and use the reference clock of the HP8922. BTW, there is also a GSM frame pulse available at one of the connectors (one of the J01 pins, I have to look it up). OK, maybe a simple frequency counter is a good reason to finally do something usefull with my FPGA boards ;-) Best regards, Dieter -- Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de

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AW: AW: BS-11 PLL clock source / calibration
by Andreas.Eversberg 17 Apr '09

17 Apr '09

the registration did not work, the network was found. i did not test the sim card. i will do this in the future. -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dieter Spaar [mailto:spaar@mirider.augusta.de] Gesendet: Freitag, 17. April 2009 14:54 An: Andreas.Eversberg Cc: openbsc(a)lists.gnumonks.org Betreff: Re: AW: BS-11 PLL clock source / calibration Hello Andreas, On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:05:16 +0200, "Andreas.Eversberg" <Andreas.Eversberg(a)versatel.de> wrote: > i tested external clock from isdn line yesterday. modern phones, like > the i-phone will not register to the base station. (tested it yesterday > together with other phones). no packet is received by openbsc. so i set > the clock to "locked" and retrieved the clock from my isdn line (layer 1 > up). it did not help at all. the phone found the base station id while > scanning for networks, but the registration did not work. > > is it possible that the provisioning (during startup) is faulty? If I remeber, several iPhones registered to the BS-11 during 25C3. So it should work (however I cannot test it here, but feel free to send my an iPhone for playing ;-) Do you see the test network with the iPhone or does the registration not work ? Have you tried to use the SIM card from a phone which has already registered to the test network ? This way the iPhone would look at the BS-11 first before trying to search for other netwoks. Best regards, Dieter -- Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de

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AW: BS-11 PLL clock source / calibration
by Andreas.Eversberg 17 Apr '09

17 Apr '09

if you need clock signals, you can use the C4IO clock line of the ISDN cards. they clock 4096khz. you can use them to transfer clock from one card to another or to mesure the clock. the E1 card has this clock on one pin of the PCM connector. (see data sheet) the C4IO is also available on the HFC-PCI single port card. with an oscilloscope you can compare. in order to retieve the clock from E1 interface in NT-mode, you need to: modprobe hfcmulti port=0x200 debug=0x40000 watch the dmesg about init process of controller. this will override the default behavior: provide clock to the NT interface. i would suggest to use a resistor of 1K to protect the e1 card. the signal must not look good, we just need the shift of both signals. -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: openbsc-bounces(a)lists.gnumonks.org [mailto:openbsc-bounces@lists.gnumonks.org] Im Auftrag von Dieter Spaar Gesendet: Freitag, 17. April 2009 14:25 An: Harald Welte Cc: openbsc(a)lists.gnumonks.org Betreff: Re: BS-11 PLL clock source / calibration Hello Harald, On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:17:13 +0200, "Harald Welte" <laforge(a)gnumonks.org> wrote: > > Dieter, what I just found out is that the LI object has a user-configurable > setting, where we can force it to be stand alone or locked to the E1. You mean the "PLL synchonisation mode" attribute which is set to "locked mode" ? I am not sure if we can change it for our version of the BS-11. As far as I understand the documentation, this is a setting which is only available with the CCU ("Combo Card Unit", the universal interface which also allows to use a standard ISDN line). The documentation mentions at one place that for the CCU variant they use an oven controlled oscillator which fulfilles the GSM clock stability requirements even without being snchronized to the E1 line. But we should of course try it. > We could add this setting to the bs11_config program so people can try > if their E1 clock or their [10 years uncalibrated] BS11 internal oscillator > is better. > > What do you think? Yes, why not try it. Probably the result is similar to disabling the master clock of the HFC-E1 card, this way the BS-11 clock determines the E1 clock (the HFC-E1 card synchronizes to the trasmitter E1 clock of the BS-11 and the BS-11 locks to the transmitter clock of the HFC-E1 which is determined by the BS-11). Surely the cleaner way is to adjust the clock setting in the BS-11 (if this settings works for our BS-11 variant). > I'm quite sure there must be an option to do this externally. The internal > oscillator must be calibrated every two years, and I'm sure they do this > without opening the case (in the field...) Its possible to calibrate the PLL without opening the case. The attribute is protected by some checksum, I have not looked at the details. And "officially" out LMT version should not even allow to see the calibration dialog ;-) The problem for me is how to measure the clock without opening the case. I can measure an unmodulated carrier very accurate if it is within the 10 MHz to 1 GHz range (the HP 8922 is accurate enough to do this). However I don't have the equippment to measure the modulated and pulsed signal of the BS-11. Maybe there is some hidden setting to send just the unmodulated carrier, but I have not yet found anything in this direction. Another problem is that changing the calibration requires a restart of the BS-11 (at least I only saw any effect when I restarted). Additionally when you query the calibration, you get the "PLL Set Value" and the "PLL Work Value", the "Set Value" seems to be used when starting up and the "Work Value" changes, most certainly locking to an external clock also influences it. I did not find anything in the documentation, actually those settings are not indended for the end user, just the factory. Best regards, Dieter -- Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de

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AW: BS-11 PLL clock source / calibration
by Andreas.Eversberg 17 Apr '09

17 Apr '09

i tested external clock from isdn line yesterday. modern phones, like the i-phone will not register to the base station. (tested it yesterday together with other phones). no packet is received by openbsc. so i set the clock to "locked" and retrieved the clock from my isdn line (layer 1 up). it did not help at all. the phone found the base station id while scanning for networks, but the registration did not work. is it possible that the provisioning (during startup) is faulty? -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: openbsc-bounces(a)lists.gnumonks.org [mailto:openbsc-bounces@lists.gnumonks.org] Im Auftrag von Harald Welte Gesendet: Freitag, 17. April 2009 10:17 An: Dieter Spaar Cc: openbsc(a)lists.gnumonks.org Betreff: BS-11 PLL clock source / calibration On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 07:44:02PM +0200, Dieter Spaar wrote: > The BS-11 takes the clock from the E1 line as reference. So you somehow > have to make sure that this clock is stable and accurate. If you don't > use another ISDN line, you have to generate a stable and accurate clock > for the E1 card yourself. Dieter, what I just found out is that the LI object has a user-configurable setting, where we can force it to be stand alone or locked to the E1. We could add this setting to the bs11_config program so people can try if their E1 clock or their [10 years uncalibrated] BS11 internal oscillator is better. What do you think? > Another approach might be to calibrate the BS-11 internal oscillator, > this can be done by software. However it is not yet sure if this will > solve the problem in a reliable way, also I have not yet found a way > to measure the BS-11 clock without opening the case. I'm quite sure there must be an option to do this externally. The internal oscillator must be calibrated every two years, and I'm sure they do this without opening the case (in the field...) Regards, -- - Harald Welte <laforge(a)gnumonks.org> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/ ============================================================================ "Privacy in residential applications is a desirable marketing option." (ETSI EN 300 175-7 Ch. A6)

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LMT cable pinout
by Matthias Wenzel 17 Apr '09

17 Apr '09

Hi, can someone post the pinout of the rs232 LMT cable - db9 on one end, and the 8pin header on the bs11 on the other side. the wiki doesn't have the information (yet). http://bs11-abis.gnumonks.org/trac/attachment/wiki/BS11_Package_List/bs11_l… http://bs11-abis.gnumonks.org/trac/attachment/wiki/BS11_Configuration/bs11_… thanks in advance - the cable either didn't get shipped to our lab or went the way all hardware goes... matthias

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Re: BS-11 runs, but no Network on my Mobile
by Dieter Spaar 17 Apr '09

17 Apr '09

Hello Marcel, On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:14:36 +0200, "Marcel Klein" <marcel(a)koeln.ccc.de> wrote: > > Hm wouldn't it be possible to sync our clock with the official networks > (without an extra ISDN-line)? Somebody told me that there are several > ways to sync the clock. Here we discussed the ISDN way, but somebody > told me that it should also be possible to set the clock over GPS and/or > other networks in our area. The BS-11 takes the clock from the E1 line as reference. So you somehow have to make sure that this clock is stable and accurate. If you don't use another ISDN line, you have to generate a stable and accurate clock for the E1 card yourself. Another approach might be to calibrate the BS-11 internal oscillator, this can be done by software. However it is not yet sure if this will solve the problem in a reliable way, also I have not yet found a way to measure the BS-11 clock without opening the case. If you want to experiment with your test network only it should not care, beside some additional effort to initially register to the network, the BS-11 clock is most certainly stable enough so that a phone can stay synchronized to the BS-11 network and that it can be used with this network. Best regards, Dieter -- Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de

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AW: success
by Andreas.Eversberg 16 Apr '09

16 Apr '09

i will work on several parts parallel, but i will provide a seperat patch for every part of course. the biggest (signalling) thing is the state machine + information elements + call control. i cannot split this into serveral patches. for me "call handling" is the application ontop of OpenBSC. there must be an API to use OpenBSC in other applications. currently the "application" in OpenBSC just takes an incomming call, does a data base lookup, and sends "SETUP" message. also it forwards messages like "ALTERING" or "CONNECT". this must be replaced by a different application in order to terminate calls instead of forwarding them. the interface, i like to introduce, will use primitives which are specified in GSM 04 07. they begin with MNCC_xxx_yyy, where xxx is the primitive type and yyy the info about request/acknowlede and direction info: example: MNCC_SETUP_IND indicates a setup from the remote (requested by mobile, sent to us) i like to use a structure for every message type with its information elements: (example) struct MNCC_setup *setup = (struct MNCC_setup *arg) // arg depends on the message type if (setup->emergency) printf("emergency call\n"); else printf("dialed number is %s, and type is %d\n", setup->called, setup->called_type); .... i will parse/create all information elements, even if not needed by built-in "call handling" or by my application. messages to the layer 3 will use a send message. (mncc_send(struct gsm_call *call, int prim, void *arg)) messages from layer 3 will use a call back function with similar parameters. this callback function pointer will point towards selected application. a special function for "allocating" the call will also be provided. this is required for application to find a free call structure. my goal is to make the API close to the GSM specs. also if someone has better idea for API interface, please let me know. -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: openbsc-bounces(a)lists.gnumonks.org [mailto:openbsc-bounces@lists.gnumonks.org] Im Auftrag von Holger Freyther Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. April 2009 12:30 An: openbsc(a)lists.gnumonks.org Betreff: Re: success On Tuesday 14 April 2009 13:10:36 Andreas.Eversberg wrote: > - remove all call/subscriber handling from layer 3 and put it into a > seperat file (layer 4 call control). it will then be possible to > initialize libbsc without the built-in call control and database, to use > it for other applications like asterisk and linux-call-router. my two cents on this. call handling: I think whatever we have/put into OpenBSC should be fully spec compliant. I don't see the reason to allow to use an entire different implementation of the call handling. I totally agree that policies (e.g. which state to enter after ...) should be fully controllable on the app layer. > the estimated time for this will be about 2-3 months. the result will be > a complete BSC+MSC with routing and PBX features and asterisk interface. > i will provide a patch en-block, because i work on all parts at the same > time. hmm a patch accumulating 2-3 months of work? that will be pretty hard for everyone to review or even change direction early on...

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