2009/7/10 Harald Welte <laforge(a)gnumonks.org>
On Thu, Jul 09, 2009 at 01:18:05PM +0200, Eric Cathelinaud wrote:
> > Hi everybody
> >
> > I just would like to be sure that the paging is only sent on TS0 with
> > OpenBSC, that is to say PCH (which is on CCCH) is only sent on TS0.
> > I read that it could be sent on more time slots (TS2, TS4 and TS6 also)
> in
> > the GSM specifications. Is it the case in the soft or you just keep the
> > normal multiplexage setting (TS0 only for CCCH+BCCH, 1 slot for dedicated
> > channels and 6 slots for the traffic channels)?
>
> we only run one timeslot (TS0) for the CCCH (and thus the PCH). Using more
> timeslots is only required in really large BTS with many TRX - not a case
> we particularly care about right now.
>
> --
> - Harald Welte <laforge(a)gnumonks.org>
> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/
>
> ============================================================================
> "Privacy in residential applications is a desirable marketing option."
> (ETSI EN 300 175-7 Ch. A6)
>
Ok thanks
I was just thinking about performing a recursive paging in order to see how
much time I have until the battery of a mobile phone run out.
Does anyone know if the mobile phone answers at every paging or if it
doesn't "listen" all the time? I think it listens periodically. If anyone
can give me a clue, that would be appreciated.
Eric Cathelinaud
Hello Harald,
On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:02:11 +0200, "Harald Welte" <laforge(a)gnumonks.org> wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot for your investigation. Are you planning to take it beyond the
> hack and do a clean implementation that we can merge at some point?
To implement it in a clean way in my opinion requires some discussion
about how to do it so that it fits into the architecture:
- When do the authentication, most certainly during the first
Loacation Update, but when else ?
- Where to store the subscriber Ki for authentication and the
information about which algorithm is used ? Also store for each
subscriber if authentication and/or encryption should to be used.
- Where to cache Kc, its not necessary to authenticate every time when
encryption for a channel is turned on. Kc from a previous
authentication can be used several times.
- Where to turn on encryption, every time a channel is allocated ?
Those are just a few thoughts. I guess discussion about the details
probably takes longer than if you or Holger implement it during your
ongoing work on OpenBSC. Currently you both are the main people working
on OpenBSC at several places of the implementation and a clean integration
of authentication and encryption affects a lot of those places too. I am
reluctant to interfere here, not because of the time it takes (its not
that much) but because any changes should fit to what you plan to
do. If anyone want to see the technical details, I can provide them,
its rather simple and straightforward.
Best regards,
Dieter
--
Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de
Hello,
I did a few tests with Authentication and Encryption. Its just
a quick hack and nothing which can be integrated into OpenBSC
in a clean way but the process was rather straightforward:
- For my tests I used the location update request.
- I sent the AUTHENTICATION REQUEST to the MS.
- When I received the AUTHENTICATION RESPONSE from the MS, I
compared SRES with the expected value. If the expected value
was received, I send the ENCRYPTION COMMAND with Kc to the
BTS. If the wrong SRES was received, I send an AUTHENTICATION
REJECT to the MS.
- The BTS will now send the CIPHERING MODE COMMAND to
the MS and activate encryption.
- The CIPHERING MODE COMPLETE command from the MS will already
be received encrypted.
I have not recorded the RF traffic to check if encryption is really
enabled. But the Nokia Netmonitor indicated encryption, additionally
if I send the wrong Kc in the ENCRYPTION COMMAND, the location update
does not complete.
I have not tested speech traffic yet, but it most certainly works the
same way.
One thing which might be interesting is how to get SRES and Kc because
the A3/A8 algorithm on the SIM is usually not known. There are a few ways
how to do it:
- one could record a few results from a SIM and only send RAND values
where the pre-recorded results are known.
- the SIM communication could be intercepted (for example with a
device like the "Turbo Lite" from www.bladox.com) and if the APDU for
authentication is sent, one can run its own A3/A8 algorithm instead of
the one from the card.
- if one has a SIM with the broken and known COMP128, its possible
to find Ki so that the authentication response from the card can
be calculated.
- Test SIMs (for GSM Test Equipment) have implemented a know
A3/A8 algorithm (XOR) and so the authentication response can
be calculated.
- One can buy one of those SIM clone cards (they are called Super-SIM
Magic-SIM, 16in1 SIM or similar). They are of not much use for official
networks because only a few (if any) providers use COMP128 any more
and this is the algorithm those card implement (and expect it to be in
the card which should be cloned). You can buy such SIM cards rather cheap
(around 5 Euro). They usually come with a software (Windows) which allows
to set the IMSI and Ki for COMP128. So you have a card with a know
A3/A8 algorithm (COMP128) and a know Ki.
I used one of those SIM clone cards for my experiments, the SIM worked
fine in an older Nokia 3310 (at least for this test). I don't know how
well it will work in other phones but for this rathe low price its
probably worth a try.
Best regards,
Dieter
--
Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de
Hi!
JFYI: My dissector for the Abis-IP adaption layer of ip.access has been merged
into wireshark (as of svn revision 29059).
--
- Harald Welte <laforge(a)gnumonks.org> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/
============================================================================
"Privacy in residential applications is a desirable marketing option."
(ETSI EN 300 175-7 Ch. A6)
Hi everybody
I just would like to be sure that the paging is only sent on TS0 with
OpenBSC, that is to say PCH (which is on CCCH) is only sent on TS0.
I read that it could be sent on more time slots (TS2, TS4 and TS6 also) in
the GSM specifications. Is it the case in the soft or you just keep the
normal multiplexage setting (TS0 only for CCCH+BCCH, 1 slot for dedicated
channels and 6 slots for the traffic channels)?
Thanks
Eric Cathelinaud
Hello Nordin,
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:31:36 +0200, "Nordin" <bouchtaoui(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But this means that your HTC needs more relevant GPRS settings before
> deciding to register. So it than searches for altenatives, but since the
> BA list is empty it starts all over again and the whole process repeats,
> which might result in a long procedure before it gives up. This is what
> it might could be the reason, I'm not sure.
If the GPRS Indicator is set, SYSTEM INFORMATION 13 is needed to
describe the GPRS properties. But SYSTEM INFORMATION 13 is not set
yet (not possible for the BS-11 anyway) so the phone won't find it.
Probably some phones don't care about it but some others insist to
find it before going to register.
This is probably one of the many places where there is no rule in
the specification what should be done in such a situation so its
up to the developer of the firmware (the phone could register and
return an error only when GPRS is actually needed for a data
connection). Of course I don't mean that the specification is
incomplete, it just expects that certain things are done "right"
(who would expect that people outside of the mobile phone industry
play with a BTS ;-).
Best regards,
Dieter
--
Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de
Hello Nordin,
On Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:00:27 +0200, "Nordin" <bouchtaoui(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I tried the parameters as you suggested for SI 1 as well as SI3, but
> with no success. But I'm still curious if someone else on the list
> registered a PDA-like mobilephone (with GPRS support) to his BTS
> (BS11/nanoBTS1800). If so, I would like to try out his/her SI's settings.
>
With the modification I have sent I can register a HTC Touch Pro to
the BS11 and the nanoBTS 1800. If GPRS is set in SYSTEM INFORMATION 3,
the phone will not register.
The process is a bit unstable, if the phone is powered on, the
location update works as expected, if I try to register manually,
it sometime fails without actually communication with the BTS.
I don't know the reason for this behaviour yet.
Best regards,
Dieter
--
Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de
Hello guys,
I made a repository for the OpenBSC project, see:
http://repo.or.cz/w/openbsc.git
Now you can update/clone the project from
http://repo.or.cz/r/openbsc.git, like this:
git clone http://repo.or.cz/r/openbsc.git
It will be updated every hour (mirror mode).
I needed that because our firewall blocks the git port 9418.
Thank you for the tip Holger Freyther :)
If you have any questions, don't hestitate to ask.