Hi Vadim. I feel somewhat reluctant to be the first to respond and so negatively, but I for one have serious problems with any further collaboration with google (et al.) I'm even somewhat unhappy that many people on this mailing list force me to have my writing archived forever and completely outside of my control by using gmail email address. but.. hey.. what can one do? It's "free" right? And we are so poor opensource devs, we can't afford to run a mail server, or buy an account on non surveillance based service... The words "open source" and "google" in the same sentence should not "compile" but unfortunately, given the sad state of FOSS, they do. I don't have a good analysis of what google gets out of the summer of code, nor do I have the time or inclination to go reasearch it right now, but knowing their general modus operandi I'm pretty sure they get more out of it that anybody else, as is the case in fact, lamentably with most FOSS. I know that my contribution is not huge to Osmocom, but I can say is response to your proposal, I'd like to see osmocom be a little more on the ball, and work towards sustainable FOSS, and I firmly believe that means saying NO to corporate surveillance. Otherwise, what's the point? As some say in Kreuzberg, Google is kein guter Nachbar! and they are not your friends either. In the long terms, nothing good will come from collaboration with them. It's time to take a stand on ethical investment in FOSS. "just my 2c" :-P k/

On 14/01/2019 16:01, Max wrote: Which are then distributed to a mailing list where there are many gmail addresses. Under the terms of service agreed to by these subscribers, the content of THIS message is now google's to scan, analyze, store forever, input into behavioural study databases, and basically do what they will with. Yes, it's publicly archived too, but there is at least no implicit agreement that it's OK to scrape the openBSC archive and use it to train your AI, although I imagine google are doing that anyway. I've done quite a lot of research on silicon valley and corporate surveillance companies, and Google specifically. Results of that research suggest that drilling into the nitty gritty of the terms of the GSoC will turn up more of the same. - Maximum benefit for silicon valley, minimal benefits to society in general and zero attention to the crisis we are living right now. So I defend my strong opinion. On this and the other questions, I don't think I can go on here, because the massive question and potential discussion on how is Google bad for pretty much everything gets off topic for OpenBSC very quickly. If developer X is working on FOSS just to get paid, and does not care about the ethics, they are possibly in the wrong job, but we all do need to get paid. Silicon Valley is driving software development it it's preferred direction in subtle ways. Money is power unfortunately. "software freedom" IS being eroded, well even the orginal concept was flawed.. but... OT OT I'm happy to discuss and preferably work on ways to continue developing truly free software. I know it's hard. I know a lot of people in Osmocom and elsewhere work very hard on it. I would not stand in the way of anybody who wants to go to google, but google by its very existence prevents other alternatives from even being considered because they now have everything wrapped up. Vadim asked for opinions and I gave mine. I'll say it once more; google is not your friend.

On 15/01/2019 11:57, Max wrote: Yep.. and there we see the entrance to one of many rabbit holes here and something that I consider one of the failures of FOSS and the "open" movement... Hmm. So, I think this (long standing) attitude of the infallible (FSF|GNU|EFF|etc) is getting very dangerous. History will absolve me :)) I was more meaning to say that surely if one's goal is purely to make money, spending the majority of your programming skills/time on FOSS projects is probably not the best choice. Not that I don't think this debate should be had, nor do I want to avoid public discussion at all, but we should probably take this elsewhere.. So.. I still hang out at that place on tuesdays.. BTW.. at least until it's getting too smoky.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 04:01:25PM +0100, Max wrote: Receiving money is a key part of corruption, for example. For important public/social positions, there are strict laws about where you're allowed to get money from for very concrete reasons. GSoC isn't openly imposing anything as return favor, the same way it isn't openly imposing a return favor for your search results. But all of it serves their corporate purpose nevertheless. I find it hard to put in few crisp words, but in general I agree with the general distrust of companies too huge to be good for anyone. If nothing else, Google uses GSoC to identify individuals that have time on their hands, are interested in software and need money, and they affiliate that new young generation with themselves, imprinting a positive image. (That's all I'm going to say on it... OT) ~N

Hi Vadim, On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:42:05AM +0700, Vadim Yanitskiy wrote: Thanks. It's something that I've been pondering several times in the past, too. I know Holger did it once for Osmocom in the past, AFAIR, and in netfilter (where I was involved before) we also participated in GSoC. The results were - as any results from new developers - mixed. But I think it's a good opportunity to get new people involved in the project. I think it's a good idea and I'd support it. I just know that given the many projects I'm already way too late with and overloaded, I will not be able to personally mentor a GSoC student. So I'm happy to help with formailtiies, etc. - but that's about it, sorry. -- - Harald Welte <laforge(a)gnumonks.org> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/ ============================================================================ "Privacy in residential applications is a desirable marketing option." (ETSI EN 300 175-7 Ch. A6)

Thanks for working on this. Don't give up just yet though - there's another opportunity on the horizon: https://opensource.googleblog.com/2019/03/introducing-season-of-docs.html In short, Google's SoD will pay for people writing documentation for FOSS projects the same way GSoC pays for writing code. And documentation is something we can always get improved. What do you think? ;-) 26.02.19 17:03, Vadim Yanitskiy пишет: -- - Max Suraev <msuraev(a)sysmocom.de> http://www.sysmocom.de/ ======================================================================= * sysmocom - systems for mobile communications GmbH * Alt-Moabit 93 * 10559 Berlin, Germany * Sitz / Registered office: Berlin, HRB 134158 B * Geschaeftsfuehrer / Managing Directors: Harald Welte