Dear all, I vae the C115 with a T1 USB to Serial cable with the Prolific
chipset.
When i run osmocon i get :- an its just sits there with no further
processing.
./osmocon -p /dev/ttyUSB0 -m c123xor
../../target/firmware/board/compal_e88/loader.compalram.bin
read_file(../../target/firmware/board/compal_e88/loader.compalram.bin):
file_size=17120, hdr_len=4, dnload_len=17127
read_file(../../target/firmware/board/compal_e88/loader.compalram.bin):
file_size=17120, hdr_len=4, dnload_len=17127
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 00 .
got 2 bytes from modem, data looks like: 2f 00 /.
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 1b .
got 3 bytes from modem, data looks like: f6 02 00 ...
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 41 A
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 01 .
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 40 @
Received PROMPT1 from phone, responding with CMD
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 66 f
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 74 t
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 6d m
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 74 t
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 6f o
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 6f o
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 6c l
Received FTMTOOL from phone, ramloader has aborted
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 65 e
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 72 r
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 72 r
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 6f o
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 72 r
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 00 .
got 1 bytes from modem, data looks like: 00 .
I think the cable is ok as when i run my fingers on the tip i get random
Zeros so it appears to be talking to the cable.
Also when i tried to run Mobile i get the :- even though i created the
Mobile.cfg file in /etc/osmoco
Failed to parse the config file: '/home/raz/.osmocom/bb/mobile.cfg'
Please check or create config file using: 'touch
/home/raz/.osmocom/bb/mobile.cfg'
I have spent some hours researching the lists and trying various things to
no avail but I want to continue until I resolve this issues and use this
great stack to learn about the GSM network.
Please advise.
Great full for any help or pointers but this maybe a timing issue that is
difficult to debug.
Thanks
Raz
hi,
i did a lot of resarch and testing on cell selection and re-selection
process the last two week.
the cell selection process, network selection process (manual and
automatic) and mobility management process were already implemented in
OsmocomBB a long time, but turned out to be buggy and incomplete. i made
test drives to check the process and debugged it.
the re-selection process is new. it is used to track surrounding cells
while listening to the BCCH of the current cell (camping on a cell).
special extension to the layer1 firmare is used to measure neighbour
cells. if an neighbour cell becomes 'better', the mobile switches to
that cell, depening on different criteria. now it is possible to move
with OsmocomBB.
the re-selection process is not handover! handover is a process where a
phone switches between cells while doing a call. handover is one next
step to implement. the process is a little more complex, because it
requires not only neighbour cell measurements, but also syncing to them
without interrupting the traffic channel. most layer 3 stuff of handover
is already implemented.
if you like to play and test your moving OsmocomBB, you can check out
the "jolly/roaming" branch. it contains the extension to layer1, as well
as sim reader and fixes from "sylvain/testing" branch. use both "mobile"
and "layer1" firmware from this branch.
in order to see some process at VTY, you can do:
enable
monitor network 1 (continously display the strongest cell and neighbour
cells)
show ms 1 (to see current states)
show neighbour-cells 1 (to see a more detailed current list of
neighbours)
andreas
Hi,
in the osmocom bb mobile.cfg I don't see any posibility to set a fixed
Kc encryption key and the tmsi.
How could I achieve that osmocom uses my defined Kc and tmsi?
cheers,
Simian
Hi all,
*I connected, sent and made call successful with osmocombb (with real IMSI
and IMEI).
But, now, I get error, always be rejected:*
OsmocomBB# show ms
MS '1' is up, service is limited
IMEI: 357337016773249
IMEISV: 3573370167732490
IMEI generation: fixed
automatic network selection state: A0 null
cell selection state: PLMN search
radio ressource layer state: idle
mobility management layer state: MM idle, PLMN search
OsmocomBB#
% (MS 1)
% Trying to registering with network...
*in my config file (/root/.osmocom/bb/mobile.cfg)**:*
!
! OsmocomBB () configuration saved from vty
!!
!
line vty
no login
!
gps device /dev/ttyACM0
gps baudrate default
no gps enable
!
no hide-default
!
ms 1
layer2-socket /tmp/osmocom_l2
sap-socket /tmp/osmocom_sap
sim reader
network-selection-mode auto
imei 357337016773249 0
imei-fixed
emergency-imsi 452040399998391
sms-service-center +84980200030
no call-waiting
no auto-answer
no force-rekey
no clip
no clir
tx-power auto
no simulated-delay
no stick
location-updating
neighbour-measurement
codec full-speed prefer
codec half-speed
no abbrev
support
sms
a5/1
a5/2
p-gsm
e-gsm
r-gsm
gsm-850
dcs
pcs
class-900 4
class-850 4
class-dcs 1
class-pcs 1
channel-capability sdcch+tchf+tchh
full-speech-v1
full-speech-v2
half-speech-v1
min-rxlev -106
dsc-max 90
no skip-max-per-band
exit
test-sim
imsi 001010000000000
ki xor 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
no barred-access
no rplmn
hplmn-search foreign-country
exit
no shutdown
exit
!
Anyone help me???, thanks a lot!
--
Thanks and Best Regards
--
From: Hoàng Mạnh Hùng
Hi,
I'm trying to run the latest osmocom-bb git on a Motorola C118 phone.
After a minor problem with the build (as you may've noticed in the
patch I've sent). I got to the point of successfuly running layer1 on
the phone and the mobile app on the PC (I have also enabled TX). The
process seems to be stuck on trying to perform a location update. The
status of the ms is always either:
show ms
MS '1' is up, MM connection active
IMEI: 000000000000000
IMEISV: 0000000000000000
IMEI generation: fixed
automatic network selection state: A1 trying RPLMN
MCC=104 MNC=002 (104, 002)
cell selection state: connected mode 1
ARFCN=19 MCC=104 MNC=002 LAC=0xb00f CELLID=0x4fd9
(104, 002)
radio ressource layer state: connection pending
mobility management layer state: wait for RR connection (location updating)
OsmocomBB>
or
show ms
MS '1' is up, service is limited (pending)
IMEI: 000000000000000
IMEISV: 0000000000000000
IMEI generation: fixed
automatic network selection state: A1 trying RPLMN
MCC=104 MNC=002 (104, 002)
cell selection state: C3 camped normally
ARFCN=19 MCC=104 MNC=002 LAC=0xb00f CELLID=0x4fd9
(104, 002)
radio ressource layer state: idle
mobility management layer state: MM idle, attempting to update
OsmocomBB>
I think, that because of this I can't make any calls or send sms (all
the requests are being rejected):
OsmocomBB# call 1 <X>
call 1 <X>
OsmocomBB#
% (MS 1)
% Call has been rejected
The log information from mobile when it's trying to do a location
update is show below:
<000b> gsm48_rr.c:2174 PAGING REQUEST 1
<000b> gsm48_rr.c:2141 IMSI 260021964220249 (not for us)
<000b> gsm48_rr.c:2132 TMSI fd82a501 (not for us)
<000e> gsm48_mm.c:344 Location update retry
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:345 timer T3211 (loc. upd. retry delay) has fired
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:4311 (ms 1) Received 'MM_EVENT_TIMEOUT_T3211' event
in state MM IDLE, attempting to update
<000e> gsm48_mm.c:2199 Perform location update (MCC 104, MNC 002 LAC 0xb00f)
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:2333 LOCATION UPDATING REQUEST
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:2355 using LAI (mcc 104 mnc 002 lac 0xb00f)
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:2363 using TMSI 0x28a3d62e
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:914 new state MM IDLE, attempting to update -> wait
for RR connection (location updating)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:5428 (ms 1) Message 'RR_EST_REQ' received in state
idle (sapi 0)
<000e> gsm48_rr.c:1318 Establish radio link due to mobility management request
<0003> gsm322.c:4037 (ms 1) Event 'EVENT_LEAVE_IDLE' for Cell
selection in state 'C3 camped normally'
<0003> gsm322.c:823 new state 'C3 camped normally' -> 'connected mode 1'
<0003> gsm322.c:3653 Going to camping (normal) ARFCN 19.
<0003> gsm322.c:463 Sync to ARFCN=19 rxlev=-74 (Sysinfo, ccch mode NON-COMB)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:366 new state idle -> connection pending
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1465 CHANNEL REQUEST: 00 (Location Update with NECI)
<0003> gsm322.c:2938 Channel synched. (ARFCN=19, snr=16, BSIC=17)
<0001> gsm322.c:2959 using DSC of 90
<0003> gsm48_rr.c:4816 Channel provides data.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1601 RANDOM ACCESS (requests left 5)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1658 RANDOM ACCESS (Tx-integer 50 combined no
S(lots) 0 ra 0x0e)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1697 Use MS-TXPWR-MAX-CCH power value 5 (33 dBm)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1601 RANDOM ACCESS (requests left 4)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1658 RANDOM ACCESS (Tx-integer 50 combined no
S(lots) 55 ra 0x07)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1697 Use MS-TXPWR-MAX-CCH power value 5 (33 dBm)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2462 (ta 2/1107m ra 0x75 chan_nr 0x0a MAIO 0 HSN 38
TS 2 SS 0 TSC 0)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2462 (ta 2/1107m ra 0x75 chan_nr 0x0a MAIO 0 HSN 38
TS 2 SS 0 TSC 0)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:673 MON: f=19 lev=-78 snr= 0 ber= 0 LAI=104 002 b00f ID=4fd9
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1601 RANDOM ACCESS (requests left 3)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1658 RANDOM ACCESS (Tx-integer 50 combined no
S(lots) 55 ra 0x0f)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1697 Use MS-TXPWR-MAX-CCH power value 5 (33 dBm)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1601 RANDOM ACCESS (requests left 2)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1658 RANDOM ACCESS (Tx-integer 50 combined no
S(lots) 55 ra 0x01)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1697 Use MS-TXPWR-MAX-CCH power value 5 (33 dBm)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2473 (ta 1/553m ra 0x18 chan_nr 0x59 ARFCN 19 TS 1
SS 3 TSC 1)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2473 (ta 1/553m ra 0x18 chan_nr 0x59 ARFCN 19 TS 1
SS 3 TSC 1)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1601 RANDOM ACCESS (requests left 1)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1658 RANDOM ACCESS (Tx-integer 50 combined no
S(lots) 55 ra 0x0a)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1697 Use MS-TXPWR-MAX-CCH power value 5 (33 dBm)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:673 MON: f=19 lev=-78 snr= 0 ber= 1 LAI=104 002 b00f ID=4fd9
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1601 RANDOM ACCESS (requests left 0)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:1605 Done with sending RANDOM ACCESS bursts
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:836 starting T3126 with 5.000 seconds
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2225 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:673 MON: f=19 lev=-78 snr= 0 ber= 0 LAI=104 002 b00f ID=4fd9
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2473 (ta 2/1107m ra 0x0a chan_nr 0x41 ARFCN 19 TS 1
SS 0 TSC 1)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2393 request 0a matches but not frame number
(IMM.ASS fn=22,6,30 != RACH fn=22,5,25)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2473 (ta 2/1107m ra 0x05 chan_nr 0x49 ARFCN 19 TS 1
SS 1 TSC 1)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2473 (ta 2/1107m ra 0x05 chan_nr 0x49 ARFCN 19 TS 1
SS 1 TSC 1)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2225 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:673 MON: f=19 lev=-77 snr= 0 ber= 6 LAI=104 002 b00f ID=4fd9
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2473 (ta 2/1107m ra 0x00 chan_nr 0x61 ARFCN 19 TS 1
SS 4 TSC 1)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2473 (ta 2/1107m ra 0x00 chan_nr 0x61 ARFCN 19 TS 1
SS 4 TSC 1)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2462 (ta 2/1107m ra 0x7d chan_nr 0x0b MAIO 0 HSN 38
TS 3 SS 0 TSC 0)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2462 (ta 2/1107m ra 0x7d chan_nr 0x0b MAIO 0 HSN 38
TS 3 SS 0 TSC 0)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:673 MON: f=19 lev=-78 snr= 0 ber= 0 LAI=104 002 b00f ID=4fd9
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2225 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2225 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:673 MON: f=19 lev=-78 snr= 0 ber= 3 LAI=104 002 b00f ID=4fd9
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2462 (ta 2/1107m ra 0x77 chan_nr 0x09 MAIO 0 HSN 38
TS 1 SS 0 TSC 0)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2450 IMMEDIATE ASSIGNMENT:
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2462 (ta 2/1107m ra 0x77 chan_nr 0x09 MAIO 0 HSN 38
TS 1 SS 0 TSC 0)
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2503 Request, but not for us.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2225 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:2170 PAGING ignored, we are not camping.
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:673 MON: f=19 lev=-78 snr= 0 ber= 6 LAI=104 002 b00f ID=4fd9
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:765 timer T3126 has fired
<000e> gsm48_rr.c:770 Requesting channel failed
<0001> gsm48_rr.c:366 new state connection pending -> idle
<0003> gsm322.c:4037 (ms 1) Event 'EVENT_RET_IDLE' for Cell selection
in state 'connected mode 1'
<0003> gsm322.c:3565 Selecting ARFCN 19. after LOC.UPD.
<0003> gsm322.c:463 Sync to ARFCN=19 rxlev=-74 (Sysinfo, ccch mode NON-COMB)
<0003> gsm322.c:823 new state 'connected mode 1' -> 'C3 camped normally'
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:3902 (ms 1) Received 'RR_REL_IND' from RR in state
wait for RR connection (location updating) (sapi 0)
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:2732 RR link released after loc. upd.
<000e> gsm48_mm.c:2676 Location update failed
<000e> gsm48_mm.c:2686 Try location update later
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:2688 Loc. upd. failed, retry #0
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:413 starting T3211 (loc. upd. retry delay) with 15.0 seconds
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:1143 We are camping normally as returning to MM IDLE
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:1159 Loc. upd. allowed.
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:919 new state wait for RR connection (location
updating) -> MM IDLE, location updating needed
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:909 new MM IDLE state location updating needed ->
attempting to update
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:2215 Loc. upd. already pending.
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:4311 (ms 1) Received 'MM_EVENT_CELL_SELECTED' event
in state MM IDLE, attempting to update
<0005> gsm48_mm.c:2215 Loc. upd. already pending.
<0003> gsm322.c:2938 Channel synched. (ARFCN=19, snr=16, BSIC=17)
<0001> gsm322.c:2959 using DSC of 90
Can you provide me any hints on how to debug this ? Why is the
location update failing constantly ?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Best regards,
Maciej Grela
Hi All
Just wanted to confirm that I got Osmocom-BB up and running on a Raspberry Pi.
I did not use the GPIO UART pins but USB <-> serial converters.
I tried Motorola C118 and C155 with success.
Everything you need is already described:
http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/GnuArmToolchainhttp://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/libosmocorehttp://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/Software/GettingStarted?redirectedfrom=Gett…
My previous problem seems to have been a not fully compatible crosscompiled toolchain. (it worked mostly, but I could not log-in to a cell and the spectrum view crashed on the RSSI Firmware.
Also if you want transmit capability (or flashing) then you need to activate those features in the makefile.
Thanks Sylvain (confirming c118 will work) and all others who are involved!!
PS: Any news on the "emulated BTS" that has been presented at last years chaos communication congress?
I have 2 C118s + 1 normal USB serial dongle + 1 capable of burst ind.
I hope this will suffice to also run also a possible future 1 trasmit phone + 1 receive phone configuration.
I assume that even without the filter change it should be enough to send a few meters of distance.
This is my first attempt to flash the loader.
1) The instructions on http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/flashing require
loading the file named "target/firmware/board/compal_e88/loader.*e88loader*
.bin".
Strangely I do not have this file after compilation. I have
loader.compalram.bin and loader.highram.bin. I also
have layer1.e88loader.bin and rssi.e88loader.bin.
Can you please guide me?
2) The guide for flashing an application says to use rssi.e88flash.bin.
Does that mean if I want to flash "layer1" as my application, then I must
use layer1.*e88flash*.bin at that point?
Thank you for your help.
B.
So far three persons have indicated their interest to join
a meeting at my place.
Considering the time it takes to drive to my place, it
probably makes sense to have the meeting at the weekend
(either Saturday or Sunday) so that there is more time
for the meeting itself. I can suggest one of the following
dates for the first meeting, somewhere between 10:00 to
18:00 on each day:
25.8. (Sa) or 26.8. (Su)
1.9. (Sa) or 2.9. (Su)
8.9. (Sa) or 9.9. (Su)
So please let me know when you have time and also make
suggestions in which Osmocom topic you are interested
in so that we can have some sort of agenda for the
meeting to make best use of the time.
Best regards,
Dieter
--
Dieter Spaar, Germany spaar(a)mirider.augusta.de
