On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:46:50AM -0800, Bogdan Alecu wrote:
Hello, Sorry for writing you directly to your email. Thank you very much for the wiki. I was wondering if you have some knowledge about the "sim test" mode. I tried it by filling in the IMSI and MCC MNC. After I start the layer2 in a few seconds layer1 crashes. What I am trying to achieve is to send a IMSI detach to the network for the specified IMSI. Maybe you could give me a hand with this.
This is often second question after getting SIM working, so I want to share what I know. However, I'm not an expert, and most of this is gathered from presentations and speaking with people who know more than I do, so I wanted to bounce this against mailing list for additional comments.
As far as I understand it, to connect to provider network, you need provider's ki which is shared secret between network and sim card.
There are some practical attacks on older sim cards which are used by multi-network sim cards. It seems there is limited number of brute-force interations that cards support before disabling themself and that changed somehow in recent cards.
Best SIM explanation I found so far is on 27C3 wiki about GSM network:
http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/wiki/GSM#Why_do_I_need_to_buy_your_SIM_ca...
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org wrote:
From: Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org Subject: wiki: SIMReader Was: Sim on C115 & C118 To: "Bogdan Alecu" b.alecu@yahoo.com Cc: dario.lombardo@libero.it, baseband-devel@lists.osmocom.org Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 7:05 PM
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:24:51AM -0800, Bogdan Alecu wrote:
I was going to ask the same question because I have same problem with sim reader mode. However I haven't used Sylvain test. I will and come back with an update.
There seems to be sufficiant interest for using SIM reader, so I created page on wiki which might serve as good pointer:
http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/SIMReader
-- Dobrica Pavlinusic 2share!2flame dpavlin@rot13.org Unix addict. Internet consultant. http://www.rot13.org/~dpavlin
Indeed for registering to the network you'll need the ki, but for IMSI detach it's not necessary. I'm going to try again the sim test mode after getting testing branch. maybe this will solve layer1 crash.
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org wrote:
From: Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org Subject: Re: wiki: SIMReader Was: Sim on C115 & C118 To: "Bogdan Alecu" b.alecu@yahoo.com Cc: baseband-devel@lists.osmocom.org Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 9:31 PM
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:46:50AM -0800, Bogdan Alecu wrote:
Hello, Sorry for writing you directly to your email. Thank you very much for the wiki. I was wondering if you have some knowledge about the "sim test" mode. I tried it by filling in the IMSI and MCC MNC. After I start the layer2 in a few seconds layer1 crashes. What I am trying to achieve is to send a IMSI detach to the network for the specified IMSI. Maybe you could give me a hand with this.
This is often second question after getting SIM working, so I want to share what I know. However, I'm not an expert, and most of this is gathered from presentations and speaking with people who know more than I do, so I wanted to bounce this against mailing list for additional comments.
As far as I understand it, to connect to provider network, you need provider's ki which is shared secret between network and sim card.
There are some practical attacks on older sim cards which are used by multi-network sim cards. It seems there is limited number of brute-force interations that cards support before disabling themself and that changed somehow in recent cards.
Best SIM explanation I found so far is on 27C3 wiki about GSM network:
http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/wiki/GSM#Why_do_I_need_to_buy_your_SIM_ca...
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org wrote:
From: Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org Subject: wiki: SIMReader Was: Sim on C115 & C118 To: "Bogdan Alecu" b.alecu@yahoo.com Cc: dario.lombardo@libero.it, baseband-devel@lists.osmocom.org Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 7:05 PM
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:24:51AM -0800, Bogdan Alecu wrote:
I was going to ask the same question because I have same problem with sim reader mode. However I haven't used Sylvain test. I will and come back with an update.
There seems to be sufficiant interest for using SIM reader, so I created page on wiki which might serve as good pointer:
http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/SIMReader
-- Dobrica Pavlinusic 2share!2flame dpavlin@rot13.org Unix addict. Internet consultant. http://www.rot13.org/~dpavlin
I finally managed to place a call. After trying to use the test base and compile, it gave error for some function which was expecting a parameter. I found that I had to put NULL as parameter and after this it compiled with no errors. I also reported this on irc and someone has fixed this - the repository now has this parameter. Someone said that there should be two separate discussion lists - for users and dev - because there are newbie questions around. Well, I must tell you that I really did read the wiki, watched the presentations and so on and still couldn't find a complete guide on how to use Osmocom. As you can see, in the case above it wasn't at all my fault that the parameter was missing. Please don't jump to conclusions so quickly. My impression is that for an open-source project it seems to be more closed. If you did discover something then why not share? For all who try to make your first call: if you followed all the steps from wiki and you still have problems making a call, check if your cable fits good in the phone and try also with the prebuilt arm instead of building yours. For me these two things did the trick.
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org wrote:
From: Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org Subject: Re: wiki: SIMReader Was: Sim on C115 & C118 To: "Bogdan Alecu" b.alecu@yahoo.com Cc: baseband-devel@lists.osmocom.org Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 9:31 PM
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:46:50AM -0800, Bogdan Alecu wrote:
Hello, Sorry for writing you directly to your email. Thank you very much for the wiki. I was wondering if you have some knowledge about the "sim test" mode. I tried it by filling in the IMSI and MCC MNC. After I start the layer2 in a few seconds layer1 crashes. What I am trying to achieve is to send a IMSI detach to the network for the specified IMSI. Maybe you could give me a hand with this.
This is often second question after getting SIM working, so I want to share what I know. However, I'm not an expert, and most of this is gathered from presentations and speaking with people who know more than I do, so I wanted to bounce this against mailing list for additional comments.
As far as I understand it, to connect to provider network, you need provider's ki which is shared secret between network and sim card.
There are some practical attacks on older sim cards which are used by multi-network sim cards. It seems there is limited number of brute-force interations that cards support before disabling themself and that changed somehow in recent cards.
Best SIM explanation I found so far is on 27C3 wiki about GSM network:
http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/wiki/GSM#Why_do_I_need_to_buy_your_SIM_ca...
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org wrote:
From: Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org Subject: wiki: SIMReader Was: Sim on C115 & C118 To: "Bogdan Alecu" b.alecu@yahoo.com Cc: dario.lombardo@libero.it, baseband-devel@lists.osmocom.org Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 7:05 PM
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:24:51AM -0800, Bogdan Alecu wrote:
I was going to ask the same question because I have same problem with sim reader mode. However I haven't used Sylvain test. I will and come back with an update.
There seems to be sufficiant interest for using SIM reader, so I created page on wiki which might serve as good pointer:
http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/SIMReader
-- Dobrica Pavlinusic 2share!2flame dpavlin@rot13.org Unix addict. Internet consultant. http://www.rot13.org/~dpavlin
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:21:19AM -0800, Bogdan Alecu wrote:
Someone said that there should be two separate discussion lists - for users and dev - because there are newbie questions around. Well, I must tell you that I really did read the wiki, watched the presentations and so on and still couldn't find a complete guide on how to use Osmocom. As you can see, in the case above it wasn't at all my fault that the parameter was missing. Please don't jump to conclusions so quickly. My impression is that for an open-source project it seems to be more closed. If you did discover something then why not share?
I totally understand inpatiance of core developers with us newbies who are trying to use this project for the first time.
As my appriciation for their's time on something I can allrady use I decided to document SIMReader on wiki, so all blame on poor page quality should go to me directly and not to project itself, I'm afraid :-)
However, I extended wiki page with additional steps to place your first call on provider network, and I would appriciate feedback if this info would help you get started.
I finally managed to place a call. After trying to use the test base and compile, it gave error for some function which was expecting a parameter. I found that I had to put NULL as parameter and after this it compiled with no errors. I also reported this on irc and someone has fixed this - the repository now has this parameter. Someone said that there should be two separate discussion lists - for users and dev - because there are newbie questions around. Well, I must tell you that I really did read the wiki, watched the presentations and so on and still couldn't find a complete guide on how to use Osmocom. As you can see, in the case above it wasn't at all my fault that the parameter was missing. Please don't jump to conclusions so quickly. My impression is that for an open-source project it seems to be more closed. If you did discover something then why not share? For all who try to make your first call: if you followed all the steps from wiki and you still have problems making a call, check if your cable fits good in the phone and try also with the prebuilt arm instead of building yours. For me these two things did the trick.
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org wrote:
From: Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org Subject: Re: wiki: SIMReader Was: Sim on C115 & C118 To: "Bogdan Alecu" b.alecu@yahoo.com Cc: baseband-devel@lists.osmocom.org Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 9:31 PM
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:46:50AM -0800, Bogdan Alecu wrote:
Hello, Sorry for writing you directly to your email. Thank you very much for the wiki. I was wondering if you have some knowledge about the "sim test" mode. I tried it by filling in the IMSI and MCC MNC. After I start the layer2 in a few seconds layer1 crashes. What I am trying to achieve is to send a IMSI detach to the network for the specified IMSI. Maybe you could give me a hand with this.
This is often second question after getting SIM working, so I want to share what I know. However, I'm not an expert, and most of this is gathered from presentations and speaking with people who know more than I do, so I wanted to bounce this against mailing list for additional comments.
As far as I understand it, to connect to provider network, you need provider's ki which is shared secret between network and sim card.
There are some practical attacks on older sim cards which are used by multi-network sim cards. It seems there is limited number of brute-force interations that cards support before disabling themself and that changed somehow in recent cards.
Best SIM explanation I found so far is on 27C3 wiki about GSM network:
http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/wiki/GSM#Why_do_I_need_to_buy_your_SIM_ca...
--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org wrote:
From: Dobrica Pavlinusic dpavlin@rot13.org Subject: wiki: SIMReader Was: Sim on C115 & C118 To: "Bogdan Alecu" b.alecu@yahoo.com Cc: dario.lombardo@libero.it, baseband-devel@lists.osmocom.org Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 7:05 PM
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:24:51AM -0800, Bogdan Alecu wrote:
I was going to ask the same question because I have same problem with sim reader mode. However I haven't used Sylvain test. I will and come back with an update.
There seems to be sufficiant interest for using SIM reader, so I created page on wiki which might serve as good pointer:
http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/SIMReader
-- Dobrica Pavlinusic 2share!2flame dpavlin@rot13.org Unix addict. Internet consultant. http://www.rot13.org/~dpavlin
I finally managed to place a call. After trying to use the test base and compile, it gave error for some function which was expecting a parameter. I found that I had to put NULL as parameter and after this it compiled with no errors. I also reported this on irc and someone has fixed this - the repository now has this parameter.
I have just tried this testing branch too. I had version without fix, following change is needed:
in osmocom-bb/src/target/firmware/apps/simtest/main.c add NULL as parameter to calypso_sim_init()
/* Initialize Sim-Controller driver */ puts("Initializing driver:\n"); calypso_sim_init(NULL);
I try to help with putting information on wiki.
- Tomas
On 01/18/2011 09:29 PM, Bogdan Alecu wrote:
Someone said that there should be two separate discussion lists - for users and dev - because there are newbie questions around. Well, I must tell you that I really did read the wiki, watched the presentations and so on and still couldn't find a complete guide on how to use Osmocom. As you can see, in the case above it wasn't at all my fault that the parameter was missing. Please don't jump to conclusions so quickly. My impression is that for an open-source project it seems to be more closed. If you did discover something then why not share?
I think that the right suggestion came from Harald: project experts shouldn't answer to newbies questions, but just answer more complex ones. I think that other people that faced the basic issues can answer, in this case. I understand both points of view: newbies want to be helped, and they ask always the same questions (and it's right because, I must admin, documentation is not so good), and experts are tired of giving always the same infos. Remember that this is not a product but an community project, so we must act as a community. Contributions to wiki should be done, too. I definitely like this project. Dario.
baseband-devel@lists.osmocom.org
-
Bogdan Alecu -
Dario Lombardo -
Dobrica Pavlinusic -
Tomas Kopsa