Peter Stuge <peter(a)stuge.se> wrote:
> > Actually my hope is to build a quad-band phone
> That would be neat too.
> [...]
> I was thinking about phone-as-BTS, but same principle, no
> (or just the appropriate) filters.
Unfortunately these two goals (quad-band support on the one hand, and
filter hackability on the other hand) seem to be in conflict. It
seems to me that trying to build a quad-band phone using separate
antenna switch and Rx SAW filter components would be very messy,
probably too messy for an RF-clean PCB layout - hence necessitating
the use of an integrated RF front-end part that has all that mess
hidden inside. (See ftp.ifctf.org/pub/GSM/Calypso/M034F.pdf for an
example of wha I mean.)
But using an integrated RF FEM like that M034F would surely preclude
the possibility of filter hacking...
Once again, my goal is to produce a Totally Free Phone for everyday
use in one's pocket/purse, not GSM hacking - and I reason I must not
be the only person on this list who desires such; I reason that there
must be other lurkers on this list who watch with frustration as the
years go by, there are all kinds of hacks made, but virtually zero
progress toward an end-user-usable Free phone.
It's obvious that OsmocomBB and FreeCalypso will always be two separate
projects: the former focused on GSM hacking and security research, the
latter on everyday-phone end-user needs. All I'm hoping for is that
the two projects could be at least somewhat amicable, and cooperate in
things like amassing hardware knowledge - rather than be all-out
hostile.
SF
Sylvain Munaut <246tnt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> And why exactly should we help you when you publicly stated [1] that
> you'd rather shoot us then yourself
> [1] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2012-March/066565.html
A little clarification is in order:
* In my past negative interactions with certain individuals who have
previously served as employees or contractors of Openmoko-Inc and
who currently serve as lead developers of OsmocomBB, the crux of the
dispute was those individuals' unwillingness to share with all
Humanity (yes, *all Humanity*, *not* "me" - I could be dead tomorrow
and nothing will change) those COFF object files with symbolic
information which Om-Inc had received from TI, and/or their voluntary
choice to live and/or accept voluntary citizenship in a country that
deems such sharing to be illegal - obviously a voluntary choice which
I have NOT made.
* There has been one major change in the year and a half since that
post of mine quoted by Sylvain - I have discovered this:
http://scottn.us/downloads/peek/
[In case ScottN, whoever he is, takes the ware down from his website,
it's already archived on my mini-Wikileaks at
ftp.ifctf.org/pub/GSM/LoCosto - but for as long as ScottN's copy is
up, it should be much faster.]
The discovery of the above source (which is almost complete source
with very little in object-only form) makes it now unnecessary for me
to sacrifice my life in a gunfire exchange with German or Russian
police in order to free Openmoko's COFF objects - I'm pretty confident
in my ability to recreate something very similar, but full-source from
this recently discovered "peek" ware and other more recently discovered
leaks, also on my FTP site.
> than help us in any way ...
It is true that I have chosen to use a different Free Software GSM
stack (plus UI etc) implementation for my personal use, hence any
contributions from me to the software side of the OsmocomBB project
are indeed unlikely.
However, I am hoping that the project to build new free phone hardware
can be done as a joint project between the two camps. The hardware
design files will be free for anyone to download and do with as s/he
pleases, and obviously each user is free to run whatever software s/he
likes: OsmocomBB, FreeCalypso, or some 3rd or 4th or other choice that
may exist in the future.
SF
Hello fellow Calypso phone hackers,
Not having found an already-existing Calypso phone that is exactly to
my liking (of the ones supported by OsmocomBB, the Pirelli comes
closest to my ideal, but even that one has a few things I don't like,
and most important of all, the availability of these phones on the
market has already shrunk down to zilch - so the day is near when it
will be just as legendary-unobtainium as the TSM30), I am setting out
to build my own.
I am setting out to design and build a new Calypso/Iota/Rita phone,
one that will be specifically designed to run Free Software as its
firmware: either OsmocomBB or FreeCalypso (my own personal alternative
free GSM firmware implementation), up to each user's individual choice.
My design will be a phone, not a modem (i.e., complete with the
essential UI elements, as in LCD and keypad), and it will be a
dumb/plain/feature phone, i.e., the Calypso will be the main/sole CPU -
not a smartphone like Openmoko etc.
Before I tackle the difficult problem of either making a new plastic
case or choosing some existing one, I will start out by building a
bare GSM development board - basically a complete phone sans case,
built on a non-form-factor-controlled PCB. This development board
will probably end up being very similar to the one which Harard Welte
has announced here a little over a year ago, but with one major
difference: *all* hardware design source files (as in schematic, BOM
and PCB layout source) will be openly released, with absolutely nothing
withheld, and in fact the development itself will take place in a
public source control repository. Therefore, regardless of whether I
succeed or fail in the ultimate goal of producing a complete phone
packaged in a plastic case, there will be an Open Source Hardware
design for a working Calypso GSM board which others will be able to
use as a starting point - something that wouldn't be possible (or at
least less convenient) with Harald's PDF-schematics-only version.
However, the above vaporware announcement is not the real purpose of
my post. Instead, I am currently in the negotiations with several
Chinese sellers of Calypso/Iota/Rita/etc chips, and I'm soliciting
advice on exactly which variant of each chip I should use:
* The Calypso chip in both GTA02 and Pirelli DP-L10 (the two existing
designs I use as references to be copied whenever it makes sense) is
PD751992AZHH. I can easily get this exact part, but I can also get
ones with GHH or AGHH suffixes. I'm venturing a guess in that the A
seems to go with the 751992 number, i.e., it's part of the die
revision, and as to the difference between GHH and ZHH, I'm guessing
that it's the RoHS difference: I'm guessing that GHH has balls made
of real SnPb solder, whereas ZHH has the "lead-free solder" junk
substituted instead. Because I'm very fortunate to NOT live in the
EU or anywhere near, I'm not subject to any EU-nian laws like the
RoHS idiocy, and I generally prefer to use real SnPb solder whenever
possible. So I wonder: can someone confirm if indeed PD751992AGHH
is the exact same Calypso chip as the PD751992AZHH used in the GTA02
and Pirelli phones, but with real non-RoHS solder balls instead, or
is it something different?
* Which Iota variant is better: TWL3014 or TWL3025? I'm thinking
TWL3025, reasoning that it being newer probably means having some
internal bugfixes or minor improvements, but perhaps the older
TWL3014 is better instead?
* As to the Rita, the base part number appears to be TRF6151C in all
phones currently supported by OsmocomBB, so I'm sticking with this
base part number. But there are additional suffixes after the 'C'
in that P/N - would anyone happen to know what these suffixes mean,
and which variant I should use?
* For the RF PA, I see that the GTA02 uses RF3166 from RF Micro
Devices (one of Harald Welte's posts regarding his planned Calypso
board also mentioned him planning to use the same PA), whereas the
Pirelli and most other feature phones supported by OsmocomBB tend to
use Skyworks parts instead. Which is better? I'm currently leaning
toward the RF3166, but if someone has a recommendation that is
actually backed by some knowledge/reason rather than just a guess
like mine, I'll listen. :-)
* If I do go with the RF3166, any idea as to what the different suffix
versions are?
TIA for any input,
SF
Peter Stuge <peter(a)stuge.se> wrote:
> It would be neat if you choose a filter part with a footprint that
> can also accomodate a balun more easily than in the Compal phones,
Actually my hope is to build a quad-band phone (unlike the dual- or
tri-band ones we have so far) by copying this reference design from
TI:
ftp://ftp.ifctf.org/pub/GSM/Calypso/Leonardo_plus_quadband_schem.pdf
[The above PDF came from one of the Chinese sites; the /pub/GSM
directory of my FTP site above is my own sort of mini-Wikileaks for
all things dealing with the Calypso and related things - I encourage
everyone to check out the collection of goodies which I've accumulated
so far, and which only keeps growing. :-)]
As you can see on that schematic, instead of using separate antenna
switch and Rx SAW filter parts, the Leonardo reference boards used
integrated RF front-end modules - in the case of the quad-band
Leonardo Plus, it's a quad-band RF FEM that works perfectly with the
Rita.
The specific part on that Leonardo+ board seems to be Epcos M034F. A
quick search for that part hasn't shown up any availability, but then
it was only a very quick search, and even if that specific part isn't
available, I reason that there must be functional equivalents from
other manufacturers.
> so that a phone could be assembled "either way".
You mean a filterless sniffer version? I have to admit that sniffing
and other GSM hacking aren't really my areas of interest - instead all
I want is a 100% "normal" cellphone, but with just one difference:
running software/firmware whose full source is physically available
(be it legal or otherwise) for the exercise of the Four Freedoms
defined by the FSF, as a moral requirement.
SF
hello, when reading gsm spec online i have understood that on an MT call the
BTS pages the phone on the RR paging channel(PCH) the phone then asks for a
channel in the RR channel request (RACH) the BTS replies with RR immediate
assignment(AGCH) etc etc
Now I have tried to see a live example of this using osmocom-bb
layer1/mobile + gsmtap/wirehshark
However I cannot figure out or see anywhere in these logs the *RR channel
request (RACH) packet*. Does GSMTAP or OsmocomBB actually capture the RR
channel request or am I missing something here??
the logs I get are like this
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) System Information Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) System Information Type 2
(CCCH) (RR) System Information Type 3
(CCCH) (SS)
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) Paging Request Type 1
(CCCH) (RR) Immediate Assignment
and so on
Thanks!
--
View this message in context: http://baseband-devel.722152.n3.nabble.com/Channel-Request-Info-RACH-GSMTAP…
Sent from the baseband-devel mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi
I am a beginner with RTL and observing that the baseband
spectrum is centred at 0 Hz and is asymmetric going from -1 MHz to +1 MHz. How
does one filter a part of such a spectrum? For example if signal of interest lied
in -300 kHz to -150 kHz. The filtering techniques for typical band pass
filters work with positive frequencies and have symmetric frequency selection
response. As such a 150 to 300 KHz band pass filter will select signal in both
150 to 300 kHz band as well as from -150 to 300 kHz. Is there a special
filtering method available to work with negative frequencies and with an asymmetric
baseband spectrum. I am sure this has been addressed as preassumably the FM and other signals of interest are filtered somehow. Anu indications will be appreciated.
Hello,
I am trying to run osmocom on Motorola C117.
Using the following :
PC(Ubuntu12 64bit)<---->USB To Serial cable (5v)<---->serial to
(3.3V)<---->phone
when i press power button all i can get is "fmtoolerror" . and there is no
more messages only that .
I am wounding if that means the phone is not working properly or it could
be a cable issue ?
Thanks very much .
