1. Power supply, 12V-18V DC, >=20W. I think it's easier to find a PSU with a standard round DC connector, like this one and thus we need a converter cable to our Molex power connector. http://domino2.kycon.com/catalog_PDF/KLDX_SMT2.pdf
Not knowing center pin polarity or exact center pin size, it seems as though digikey (http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/power-supplies-external-internal-of...) has 348 that are 12-18v output, 10-20w, and have connectors that are 2.1mm ID to 2.5mm ID
On a side note, for power -Something that could come in useful since its got ethernet, PoE?
2. Enclosure. We'd love to have a nice table-top enclosure for UmTRX, but it requires a significant effort to source, design and assemble.
If anyone has some preexisting case designs, there's always protocase (protocase.com) or Rapid sheet metal (http://www.rapidsheetmetal.com/parts/enclosures.aspx) -Im sure theres plenty of other sheetmetal fabshops that will do custom work though, If youre wanting to use something a bit more generic -Theres enclosurehub.com
Hi Darby,
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Darby darbysgoodies@gmail.com wrote:
- Power supply, 12V-18V DC, >=20W.
I think it's easier to find a PSU with a standard round DC connector, like this one and thus we need a converter cable to our Molex power connector. http://domino2.kycon.com/catalog_PDF/KLDX_SMT2.pdf
Not knowing center pin polarity or exact center pin size, it seems as though digikey (http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/power-supplies-external-internal-of...) has 348 that are 12-18v output, 10-20w, and have connectors that are 2.1mm ID to 2.5mm ID
I haven't realized that DigiKey, Avnet and others have PSU section, thanks!
On a side note, for power -Something that could come in useful since its got ethernet, PoE?
PoE is an option, but UmTRX require too much power for the standard PoE and we think that for lab usage PoE is an overkill.
- Enclosure. We'd love to have a nice table-top enclosure for UmTRX,
but it requires a significant effort to source, design and assemble.
If anyone has some preexisting case designs, there's always protocase (protocase.com) or Rapid sheet metal (http://www.rapidsheetmetal.com/parts/enclosures.aspx) -Im sure theres plenty of other sheetmetal fabshops that will do custom work though, If youre wanting to use something a bit more generic -Theres enclosurehub.com
Interesting. Do you know similar ones in Europe? We manufacture in France and shipping enclosures from US doesn't look like a good idea.
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Alexander Chemeris alexander.chemeris@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Darby,
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Darby darbysgoodies@gmail.com wrote:
- Power supply, 12V-18V DC, >=20W.
I think it's easier to find a PSU with a standard round DC connector, like this one and thus we need a converter cable to our Molex power connector. http://domino2.kycon.com/catalog_PDF/KLDX_SMT2.pdf
Not knowing center pin polarity or exact center pin size, it seems as though digikey (http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/power-supplies-external-internal-of...) has 348 that are 12-18v output, 10-20w, and have connectors that are 2.1mm ID to 2.5mm ID
I haven't realized that DigiKey, Avnet and others have PSU section, thanks!
Anytime =)
On a side note, for power -Something that could come in useful since its got ethernet, PoE?
PoE is an option, but UmTRX require too much power for the standard PoE and we think that for lab usage PoE is an overkill.
Whats the total power budget? 802.3AF should be kosher with 13w at the device, 802.3AT (PoE+) should be good up to a little over 20w
Im with you on the lab piece, Im just thinking of a seemingly ubiquitous power source in a industrial environment -I bring this up since so many industrial Wifi AP's (Gateworks, JJPlus, etc.) are PoE powered
- Enclosure. We'd love to have a nice table-top enclosure for UmTRX,
but it requires a significant effort to source, design and assemble.
If anyone has some preexisting case designs, there's always protocase (protocase.com) or Rapid sheet metal (http://www.rapidsheetmetal.com/parts/enclosures.aspx) -Im sure theres plenty of other sheetmetal fabshops that will do custom work though, If youre wanting to use something a bit more generic -Theres enclosurehub.com
Interesting. Do you know similar ones in Europe? We manufacture in France and shipping enclosures from US doesn't look like a good idea.
Not that Im aware of, I know of protocase since they did the backblaze storage pods & you can order anything from them in individual piece quantities -But thats not to say that there arent plenty of others that offer the same services, I would imagine there would be a fair amount of places in europe that will do sheet metal enclosures -If you want something extruded though, they might have a MoQ to make the cost of the die fabrication feasible...?
-- Regards, Alexander Chemeris. CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио http://fairwaves.ru
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Darby darbysgoodies@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Alexander Chemeris alexander.chemeris@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Darby darbysgoodies@gmail.com wrote:
On a side note, for power -Something that could come in useful since its got ethernet, PoE?
PoE is an option, but UmTRX require too much power for the standard PoE and we think that for lab usage PoE is an overkill.
Whats the total power budget? 802.3AF should be kosher with 13w at the device, 802.3AT (PoE+) should be good up to a little over 20w
Im with you on the lab piece, Im just thinking of a seemingly ubiquitous power source in a industrial environment -I bring this up since so many industrial Wifi AP's (Gateworks, JJPlus, etc.) are PoE powered
According to our latest measurements, UmTRX alone requires ~15W: https://code.google.com/p/umtrx/wiki/UmTRXv2_Power
If you add UmSEL, it will add few Watts as well, but it should be below 20W I think. So PoE+ may be an option for a UmTRX without an external PA.
When we discussed internally, we discarded embedded PoE for a couple of reasons: 1. We focused on medium-range cells which would need an external PA. And in this case we're out of PoE power range. In case of a pico-cell output power (50-200mW) we could do with PoE. 2. We decided that for the first iteration we'd better focus on more important issues and use an external PoE adapter if needed. 3. PoE by default has 58VDC output. We replaced all capacitors to tantalum ones and IIRC there was a concern that increasing input voltage range to 48VDC may considerably add to the BOM cost. This is according to my memories - I hope Andrey Sviyazov could correct me if I'm wrong.
Taking all this into account, I think we might consider adding PoE option in some later version, but it's not a focus for us now. If someone wants to help us in adding this feature - please go ahead. It's an open-source project after all.
- Enclosure. We'd love to have a nice table-top enclosure for UmTRX,
but it requires a significant effort to source, design and assemble.
If anyone has some preexisting case designs, there's always protocase (protocase.com) or Rapid sheet metal (http://www.rapidsheetmetal.com/parts/enclosures.aspx) -Im sure theres plenty of other sheetmetal fabshops that will do custom work though, If youre wanting to use something a bit more generic -Theres enclosurehub.com
Interesting. Do you know similar ones in Europe? We manufacture in France and shipping enclosures from US doesn't look like a good idea.
Not that Im aware of, I know of protocase since they did the backblaze storage pods & you can order anything from them in individual piece quantities -But thats not to say that there arent plenty of others that offer the same services, I would imagine there would be a fair amount of places in europe that will do sheet metal enclosures -If you want something extruded though, they might have a MoQ to make the cost of the die fabrication feasible...?
With 15W-20W power consumption Andrey Sviyazov is worried that a sheet metal enclosure might not be enough. I'm still inclined to give it a try for a lab enclosure, though.
That said, we don't have manpower to do this right now. I estimate this as at least a week of work and thus as I mentioned - if someone is willing to make a design, we're ready to assist by all means.
1) POE components still very expensive for 1GBe and -40 deg C. 2) We'll experiment with POE when 100MB will possible to use. Anyway, it should be some sppecial design like nanoBTS, for example.
Best regards, Andrey Sviyazov. P.S. why issue 35?
2012/10/29 Alexander Chemeris alexander.chemeris@gmail.com
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Darby darbysgoodies@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Alexander Chemeris alexander.chemeris@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Darby darbysgoodies@gmail.com
wrote:
On a side note, for power -Something that could come in useful since its got ethernet, PoE?
PoE is an option, but UmTRX require too much power for the standard PoE and we think that for lab usage PoE is an overkill.
Whats the total power budget? 802.3AF should be kosher with 13w at the device, 802.3AT (PoE+) should be good up to a little over 20w
Im with you on the lab piece, Im just thinking of a seemingly ubiquitous power source in a industrial environment -I bring this up since so many industrial Wifi AP's (Gateworks, JJPlus, etc.) are PoE powered
According to our latest measurements, UmTRX alone requires ~15W: https://code.google.com/p/umtrx/wiki/UmTRXv2_Power
If you add UmSEL, it will add few Watts as well, but it should be below 20W I think. So PoE+ may be an option for a UmTRX without an external PA.
When we discussed internally, we discarded embedded PoE for a couple of reasons:
- We focused on medium-range cells which would need an external PA.
And in this case we're out of PoE power range. In case of a pico-cell output power (50-200mW) we could do with PoE. 2. We decided that for the first iteration we'd better focus on more important issues and use an external PoE adapter if needed. 3. PoE by default has 58VDC output. We replaced all capacitors to tantalum ones and IIRC there was a concern that increasing input voltage range to 48VDC may considerably add to the BOM cost. This is according to my memories - I hope Andrey Sviyazov could correct me if I'm wrong.
Taking all this into account, I think we might consider adding PoE option in some later version, but it's not a focus for us now. If someone wants to help us in adding this feature - please go ahead. It's an open-source project after all.
- Enclosure. We'd love to have a nice table-top enclosure for UmTRX,
but it requires a significant effort to source, design and assemble.
If anyone has some preexisting case designs, there's always protocase (protocase.com) or Rapid sheet metal (http://www.rapidsheetmetal.com/parts/enclosures.aspx) -Im sure theres plenty of other sheetmetal fabshops that will do custom work though, If youre wanting to use something a bit more generic -Theres enclosurehub.com
Interesting. Do you know similar ones in Europe? We manufacture in France and shipping enclosures from US doesn't look like a good idea.
Not that Im aware of, I know of protocase since they did the backblaze storage pods & you can order anything from them in individual piece quantities -But thats not to say that there arent plenty of others that offer the same services, I would imagine there would be a fair amount of places in europe that will do sheet metal enclosures -If you want something extruded though, they might have a MoQ to make the cost of the die fabrication feasible...?
With 15W-20W power consumption Andrey Sviyazov is worried that a sheet metal enclosure might not be enough. I'm still inclined to give it a try for a lab enclosure, though.
That said, we don't have manpower to do this right now. I estimate this as at least a week of work and thus as I mentioned - if someone is willing to make a design, we're ready to assist by all means.
-- Regards, Alexander Chemeris. CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио http://fairwaves.ru
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Andrey Sviyazov andreysviyaz@gmail.com wrote:
- POE components still very expensive for 1GBe and -40 deg C.
We don't need -40C rating for them. PoE is useful for nano-BTS deployments and those are mostly in-doors, I think.
- We'll experiment with POE when 100MB will possible to use.
Anyway, it should be some sppecial design like nanoBTS, for example.
Why can't we have it as an option for indoor nano-BTS style installations?
P.S. why issue 35?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
Hi Alexander, Hi Andrey,
I am not sure we would need a specific design for PoE. We could also keep our current design and provide a PoE splitter with a plug adaptor. This would let us keep our current design and make the UmTRX work with PoE.
Best regards.
Jean-Samuel. :-)
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Alexander Chemeris < alexander.chemeris@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Andrey Sviyazov andreysviyaz@gmail.com wrote:
- POE components still very expensive for 1GBe and -40 deg C.
We don't need -40C rating for them. PoE is useful for nano-BTS deployments and those are mostly in-doors, I think.
- We'll experiment with POE when 100MB will possible to use.
Anyway, it should be some sppecial design like nanoBTS, for example.
Why can't we have it as an option for indoor nano-BTS style installations?
P.S. why issue 35?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
-- Regards, Alexander Chemeris. CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио http://fairwaves.ru
For example, we might provide such a splitter (10/100/1000 25 Watts at 12/24V). http://www.planet.com.tw/en/product/product_ov.php?id=39714 :-)
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS SARL < jsn@bjtpartners.com> wrote:
Hi Alexander, Hi Andrey,
I am not sure we would need a specific design for PoE. We could also keep our current design and provide a PoE splitter with a plug adaptor. This would let us keep our current design and make the UmTRX work with PoE.
Best regards.
Jean-Samuel. :-)
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Alexander Chemeris < alexander.chemeris@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Andrey Sviyazov andreysviyaz@gmail.com wrote:
- POE components still very expensive for 1GBe and -40 deg C.
We don't need -40C rating for them. PoE is useful for nano-BTS deployments and those are mostly in-doors, I think.
- We'll experiment with POE when 100MB will possible to use.
Anyway, it should be some sppecial design like nanoBTS, for example.
Why can't we have it as an option for indoor nano-BTS style installations?
P.S. why issue 35?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
-- Regards, Alexander Chemeris. CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио http://fairwaves.ru
Thanks for the link. I've added it to the wiki: https://code.google.com/p/umtrx/wiki/PowerSupply
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS SARL jsn@bjtpartners.com wrote:
For example, we might provide such a splitter (10/100/1000 25 Watts at 12/24V). http://www.planet.com.tw/en/product/product_ov.php?id=39714 :-)
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS SARL jsn@bjtpartners.com wrote:
Hi Alexander, Hi Andrey,
I am not sure we would need a specific design for PoE. We could also keep our current design and provide a PoE splitter with a plug adaptor. This would let us keep our current design and make the UmTRX work with PoE.
Best regards.
Jean-Samuel. :-)
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Alexander Chemeris alexander.chemeris@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Andrey Sviyazov andreysviyaz@gmail.com wrote:
- POE components still very expensive for 1GBe and -40 deg C.
We don't need -40C rating for them. PoE is useful for nano-BTS deployments and those are mostly in-doors, I think.
- We'll experiment with POE when 100MB will possible to use.
Anyway, it should be some sppecial design like nanoBTS, for example.
Why can't we have it as an option for indoor nano-BTS style installations?
P.S. why issue 35?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
-- Regards, Alexander Chemeris. CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио http://fairwaves.ru
Hi Jean-Samuel,
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS SARL jsn@bjtpartners.com wrote:
I am not sure we would need a specific design for PoE. We could also keep our current design and provide a PoE splitter with a plug adaptor. This would let us keep our current design and make the UmTRX work with PoE.
Yes, that's what we could do initially, it's not something we need urgently. The discussion is whether we should consider this for some later revision of UmTRX.
The concern about a separate PoE splitter is that it might reduce overall system reliability. OTOH, it's easier to replace a broken separate PoE splitter then replace the whole UmTRX if built-in PoE is broken. AT the same time, separate PoE is more expensive and require more space. Thus it's not clear to me whether a built-in PoE would be a benefit or not.
Hi,
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Andrey Sviyazov andreysviyaz@gmail.com wrote:
- POE components still very expensive for 1GBe and -40 deg C.
Well as Alexander pointed out, I think PoE makes more sense in short range pico cell applications and I'm not sure the whole temp range is such an issue for those applications.
Cheers,
Sylvain
Yes, be sure, I know why we need POE. If we no more need outdoor then I agree. And it will be separate design because we'll never get -40C as we need now.
Best regards, Andrey Sviyazov. P.S. I mean why "Re: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35" ?
2012/10/29 Sylvain Munaut 246tnt@gmail.com
Hi,
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Andrey Sviyazov andreysviyaz@gmail.com wrote:
- POE components still very expensive for 1GBe and -40 deg C.
Well as Alexander pointed out, I think PoE makes more sense in short range pico cell applications and I'm not sure the whole temp range is such an issue for those applications.
Cheers,
Sylvain
Hi Jean-Samuel.
You are absolutely right. But I see that price in Russia market around $150. And you should agree that it Is not such cheap as we wish. So, using 100MB LAN per UmTRX board and internal PoE for -40..+75C seem realistic to be implemented in future. On other hand we can start to design openPoE project :)
Best regards, Andrey Sviyazov.
2012/10/29 Andrey Sviyazov andreysviyaz@gmail.com
Yes, be sure, I know why we need POE. If we no more need outdoor then I agree. And it will be separate design because we'll never get -40C as we need now.
Best regards, Andrey Sviyazov. P.S. I mean why "Re: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35" ?
2012/10/29 Sylvain Munaut 246tnt@gmail.com
Hi,
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Andrey Sviyazov andreysviyaz@gmail.com wrote:
- POE components still very expensive for 1GBe and -40 deg C.
Well as Alexander pointed out, I think PoE makes more sense in short range pico cell applications and I'm not sure the whole temp range is such an issue for those applications.
Cheers,
Sylvain
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Andrey Sviyazov andreysviyaz@gmail.com wrote:
On other hand we can start to design openPoE project :)
Why not? I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to use it.
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Andrey Sviyazov andreysviyaz@gmail.com wrote:
And it will be separate design because we'll never get -40C as we need now.
Is there anything which prevents us from having it as an option on the PCB? Then we would be able to decide whether we need it or not at population time.
P.S. I mean why "Re: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35" ?
Darby is receiving e-mails from this mailing list in a digested (batch) form. I.e. all e-mails from a given period of time come as a single huge e-mail. And this huge e-mail has its subject like above.
-
Alexander Chemeris -
Andrey Sviyazov -
Darby -
Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS SARL -
Sylvain Munaut