Hello fellow SIM tracers,
I have my new incarnation of SIMtrace mostly working:
https://www.freecalypso.org/hg/simtrace-ice/
The Hg repository is named simtrace-ice, but the host program binaries installed by the sw package are named simtrace3-*, following the installed binary namespace usage convention established by previously existing simtrace2-*.
Quoting from the README file at the top of the just-linked source repository, FreeCalypso SIMtrace3 (aka SIMtrace-ice) is an alternative implementation of Osmocom SIMtrace principal idea, using an iCE40 FPGA instead of AT91SAMx MCU as the ISO 7816-3 sniffing receiver. The signals going to the FPGA are outputs from a unidirectional voltage- translating buffer (Nexperia 74LVC4T3144) whose inputs are connected to the SIM interface being sniffed. The sniffing apparatus is thus electrically clean, making only a Hi-Z connection to the SIM interface being sniffed, and I expect it to work correctly with all voltages from 1.8 to 5 V.
This new SIMtrace3 gadget is more than just a proposal - most parts of it have already been implemented and proven working. The multivolt sniffer board remains to be assembled/populated (I got the PCB and the components on hand, I just need to make a visit to Technotronix to get it assembled), but the FPGA gateware and the host programs receiving and decoding the sniffed bits have already been proven working, using an FCDEV3B forced into Class B voltage mode to work without the mv-sniffer component.
The hardware setup is quite minimal: the FPGA board is off-the-shelf Lattice iCEstick, readily available from various distributors, and the SIMtrace3-specific custom hw bit will be reduced to just one very simple board in the final version. The SIMtrace3 sniffer pod will passively interconnect the SIM interface under study between the FPC connector (existing SIMtrace FPC cables), a physical 2FF SIM socket and the Hi-Z input pins of the dual-supply buffer, while the output side of that buffer will go to header pins, to be connected to the Icestick board. The 74LVC4T3144 buffer IC will be the only active component on this board!
My initial emphasis is on sniffing, but my longer plans include cardem too. I prefer having separate hw setups for the two functions, hence my design calls for two separate "pod" boards, a sniffing pod and a cardem pod. The cardem pod will be the sniffing pod (same multivolt buffer, supporting all voltages) minus the SIM socket, plus a 74LVC1G07 OD buffer for driving the SIM I/O line from the FPGA-emulated card. The FPGA gateware will of course be different too, but I expect it to fit into the HX1K FPGA on the same iCEstick board.
It should also be noted that whether people like my design or not, the name SIMtrace3 is now effectively claimed for this design whose gateware and host software have already been implemented and whose hw components are in the process of being finished and polished. If the people behind SIMtrace1/2 (the original) totally dislike my idea and would rather build some other successor to SIMtrace2, please call your version SIMtrace4 - otherwise there will be two different designs each claiming to be SIMtrace3, which won't help anyone.
M~
Dear Mychaela,
On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 11:02:49AM -0800, Mychaela Falconia wrote:
I have my new incarnation of SIMtrace mostly working:
it is great that you are working on a SIM card protocol tracer, and that you share your updates here.
However, I would like to ask you to stop using the name "SIMtrace3". This will lead to a lot of confusion among users, as it is not the designated/ official successor [it might be a candidate, but that is something that all parties agree to] to the SIMtrace + SIMtrace2 project that Kevin and I started more than a decade ago. It is a matter of respect for other peoples' work.
Let me put it the other way around: Wouldn't you also feel weird if we suddenly started a "FreeCalypso2" project? Or a "Osmocom FCDEV4B board" or the like? Maybe you wouldn't mind, and that's fine. But its something the existing user of the respective name has to be asked about, and nothing the new user of the name can determine unilaterally.
So in the sake of having clear project names avoiding confusion among users or software package maintainers at distributions, ...: Please stop at the very least using the "SIMtrace plus a number" naming scheme, or consider to stop using the SIMtrace name altogether. UICCtrace? CardTrace? ChipCardTrace? ISO7816Trace? There are many reasonable names that are not used yet, AFAICT.
I am in no way implying that there I, the Osmocom project or sysmocom have a legal right to prevent anyone from using the SIMtrace name. It is not a registered trade mark. However, as stated above, I would say the re-use of an existing name with a different [version] number does not fall into the general consensus of how FOSS projects or the wider hacker community treat each other.
This new SIMtrace3 gadget is more than just a proposal - most parts of
It might be a real-world implementation of a SIM card protocol tracer, but that doesn't make it "SIMtrace3" with a name implying it is the designated successor of the existing SIMtrace vresions. Yesterday others approached me confused about why you had added something about a SIMtrace3 talk to osmocom redmine, when there was no decision as to what the Version 3 of SIMtrace actually should look like. Hence I desided to rename the title in the redmine to "proposal" as I perceive it as a hardware project that you wanted to propose to become SIMtrace3. It wouldn't have crosesd my mind that anyone would simply claim it is SIMtrace3 unilaterally, and then "inform" Osmocom about that without any prior discussion.
Thanks, Harald
Hi Harald,
Let me put it the other way around: Wouldn't you also feel weird if we suddenly started a "FreeCalypso2" project?
Poor analogy: FC is a family of loosely related projects like Osmocom (see footnote), not a single specific project like SIMtrace. I am not claiming an "Osmocom2" project, am I?
Or a "Osmocom FCDEV4B board"
Saying "Osmocom FCxxx" would be a self-contradiction, but if you were to design a quadband Calypso board, you would have every right to call it something like "Osmocom CalypsoDev4B". The 3B at the end of FCDEV3B stands for triband, and I put it in the name back in 2015 because it was an explicit step backward from my original plan of aiming directly for a quadband Leonardo+ re-creation.
Please stop at the very least using the "SIMtrace plus a number" naming scheme, or consider to stop using the SIMtrace name altogether. UICCtrace? CardTrace?
Would it be OK with you if I call my project FreeCalypso SIMsniff in formal naming contexts and simply SIMsniff in casual conversation with Vintage Mobile Phone community members wondering why phone model ABC mysteriously refuses to accept SIM card model XYZ? In formal naming contexts the full names of the two projects would be Osmocom SIMtrace vs FreeCalypso SIMsniff - it should be obvious that they are distinct, but the similarity will also make it clear that they aim for the same utility niche and that one was probably created in response to perceived shortcomings of the other, which is factual truth.
Under this proposal the two current binaries named simtrace3-sniff-rx and simtrace3-sniff-dec would become simsniff-rx and simsniff-dec, respectively, and the Hg repository will be renamed from simtrace-ice to fc-sim-sniff.
Please confirm if my rename proposal is acceptable to you or not - renames are obviously disruptive, hence I will only make the rename once the new name is approved by all parties. I will also pause the design and production of my next-planned sniffer pod board until this naming agreement is reached, to avoid producing PCBs with the wrong name on the silk screen.
Please also note that my alternative SIM-ME protocol tracer project reuses existing SIMtrace FPC cables, the ones which you already offer separately in your webshop - and one could regard these physical SIM socket FPC adapters as the most important part of SIMtrace...
M~
Footnote: FreeCalypso began life in 2013 as an off-shoot of then-existing free-falling remains of Openmoko community, and it is my understanding that Osmocom is somewhat of a genealogical derivative of Openmoko too, at least in terms of key people involved. By this logic, Osmocom and FreeCalypso should be seen as siblings, with Osmocom as the big brother and FC as the little sister.
Hi Mychaela,
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 12:42:07AM -0800, Mychaela Falconia wrote:
Let me put it the other way around: Wouldn't you also feel weird if we suddenly started a "FreeCalypso2" project?
Poor analogy: FC is a family of loosely related projects like Osmocom (see footnote), not a single specific project like SIMtrace. I am not claiming an "Osmocom2" project, am I?
The point is that there is a well-established name/"Brand" that's around for 13 years now, and that it is always bad to try to reuse that brand for something else without coordination/agreement. Whether that's a "project brand" or a "product" brand" or whatevery you want to call it. But yes, I was trying hard (without spending time) to make an analogy.
Would it be OK with you if I call my project FreeCalypso SIMsniff in formal naming contexts and simply SIMsniff in casual conversation with Vintage Mobile Phone community members wondering why phone model ABC mysteriously refuses to accept SIM card model XYZ? In formal naming contexts the full names of the two projects would be Osmocom SIMtrace vs FreeCalypso SIMsniff - it should be obvious that they are distinct, [...] Please confirm if my rename proposal is acceptable to you or not -
Thank you for your offer to compromise and rename. It is none of my business to interfere with how you call your projects/products/software/hardware, just as long as there is no clash or overlap or easy misunderstanding with any of my/our projects.
FreeCalypso SIMsniff IMHO has no resemblence to Osmocom SIMtrace or any other project I'm involved in, and hence it is completely up to you.
For what it's worth: I personally do like the new proposed name.
renames are obviously disruptive, hence I will only make the rename once the new name is approved by all parties.
Yes, I fully understand the fall-out of name changes. Thanks again for considering our input here (as stated, it's not just me but several others had reached out privately).
Please also note that my alternative SIM-ME protocol tracer project reuses existing SIMtrace FPC cables, [...]
That is of course completely fine. It has no implication on product naming Anyone can use those designs and or the actual FPC cables. Please also note that we inherited that FPC connector and the principle of those adapter cables from RebelSIM.
the ones which you already offer separately in your webshop - and one could regard these physical SIM socket FPC adapters as the most important part of SIMtrace...
FYI: I personally would consider the pySim-trace.py as the most useful part of SIMtrace (if one wants to count it as part of it).
Footnote: FreeCalypso began life in 2013 as an off-shoot of then-existing free-falling remains of Openmoko community, and it is my understanding that Osmocom is somewhat of a genealogical derivative of Openmoko too, at least in terms of key people involved. By this logic, Osmocom and FreeCalypso should be seen as siblings, with Osmocom as the big brother and FC as the little sister.
I see the relation between Openmoko and FreeCalypso. I don't really see it all that much regarding Osmocom. We started on the first projects that later became (and still are) the foundation of Osmocom (bs11_hack, openbsc, later osmocom CNI) 2 years before we started to work on OsmocomBB and hence anything calypso related. But honestly, I don't care too much about such prescribed relationship analogies.
Let's get the naming resolved and talk about technology again. I guess we can all agree on that!
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 01:43:11PM +0200, Harald Welte wrote:
Would it be OK with you if I call my project FreeCalypso SIMsniff in formal naming contexts and simply SIMsniff in casual conversation with Vintage Mobile Phone community members wondering why phone model ABC mysteriously refuses to accept SIM card model XYZ? In formal naming contexts the full names of the two projects would be Osmocom SIMtrace vs FreeCalypso SIMsniff - it should be obvious that they are distinct, [...] Please confirm if my rename proposal is acceptable to you or not -
FreeCalypso SIMsniff IMHO has no resemblence to Osmocom SIMtrace or any other project I'm involved in, and hence it is completely up to you.
For what it's worth: I personally do like the new proposed name.
I also see no issue naming it SIMsniff.