simtrace

simtrace@lists.osmocom.org

3 participants
331 discussions

by Neeraj Chaudhary

Hi Team, I am getting the following error while running the pySim-read.py , This program runs fine on old SIM cards but in new SIM cards it gives the below error. I did a comparison of directories on both the SIM cards and there is a difference, Kindly guide how to fix it . Although EF.ICCID exists in both the SIM cards . Additionally pySim-shell.py works well . python3 pySim-read.py -p 1 Using reader PCSC[HID Global OMNIKEY 3x21 Smart Card Reader [OMNIKEY 3x21 Smart Card Reader] 01 00] Reading ... Autodetection failed Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/lab3/pysim/pySim-read.py", line 105, in <module> (res, sw) = card.read_iccid() File "/home/lab3/pysim/pySim/legacy/cards.py", line 62, in read_iccid (res, sw) = self._scc.read_binary(EF['ICCID']) File "/home/lab3/pysim/pySim/commands.py", line 320, in read_binary r = self.select_path(ef) File "/home/lab3/pysim/pySim/commands.py", line 285, in select_path data, _sw = self.select_file(i) File "/home/lab3/pysim/pySim/commands.py", line 296, in select_file return self.send_apdu_checksw(self.cla_byte + "a4" + self.sel_ctrl + "02" + fid) File "/home/lab3/pysim/pySim/commands.py", line 143, in send_apdu_checksw return self._tp.send_apdu_checksw(pdu, sw) File "/home/lab3/pysim/pySim/transport/__init__.py", line 218, in send_apdu_checksw raise SwMatchError(rv[1], sw.lower(), self.sw_interpreter) pySim.exceptions.SwMatchError: SW match failed! Expected 9000 and got 6e00. BR// Niraj Kumar

2 weeks

pySim-shell issues with CHV2 verification (amarisoft sim card)

by Valentin Maillet (EXT)

Good afternoon, I am trying to verify the CHV2 verification on an Amarisoft Test SIM Card. With a HID OMNIKEY 3121. I have issues with the CHV2 verification with the pySim software and amarisoft simcard. I get the error below. Can you please give me some hints on how to fix this issue as I have no idea of how to start. Sincerely, Valentin M. pySIM-shell (00:MF)> verify_chv --pin-nr 1 1234 CHV verification successful pySIM-shell (00:MF)> verify_chv --pin-nr 2 1234 EXCEPTION of type 'SwMatchError' occurred with message: SW match failed! Expected 9000 and got 6b00. To enable full traceback, run the following command: 'set debug true' pySIM-shell (00:MF)> set debug true debug - was: False now: True pySIM-shell (00:MF)> verify_chv --pin-nr 2 1234 Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/keas/.local/lib/python3.10/site-packages/cmd2/cmd2.py", line 2399, in onecmd_plus_hooks stop = self.onecmd(statement, add_to_history=add_to_history) File "/home/keas/.local/lib/python3.10/site-packages/cmd2/cmd2.py", line 2852, in onecmd stop = func(statement) File "/home/keas/.local/lib/python3.10/site-packages/cmd2/decorators.py", line 382, in cmd_wrapper return func(*args_list, **kwargs) # type: ignore[call-arg] File "/home/keas/pysim/./pySim-shell.py", line 824, in do_verify_chv (data, sw) = self._cmd.lchan.scc.verify_chv(opts.pin_nr, h2b(pin)) File "/home/keas/pysim/pySim/commands.py", line 693, in verify_chv self._chv_process_sw('verify', chv_no, code, sw) File "/home/keas/pysim/pySim/commands.py", line 682, in _chv_process_sw raise SwMatchError(sw, '9000') pySim.exceptions.SwMatchError: SW match failed! Expected 9000 and got 6b00. EXCEPTION of type 'SwMatchError' occurred with message: SW match failed! Expected 9000 and got 6b00. pySIM-shell (00:MF)>

2 weeks, 3 days

Some question about SIMtrace2

by 小葱

Dear Engineer, I have a few questions regarding simtrace2-cardem-pcsc that I would like to consult with you: （1）、I am using simtrace2-cardem-pcsc to access a remote SIM card by connecting the SIMtrace2 board to a mobile terminal. When I use pcsc_scan, it shows that the card reader has opened the SIM card successfully, and the other end is also connected to the SIMtrace2 board correctly. However, there are no valid APDU commands being printed. Through simtrace2-tool, I only see some reset information. （2）、I would like to connect the SIMTrace2 board to the soft SIM on my computer. Is there any related manual or documentation that could guide me through this process? I would greatly appreciate any advice you can provide when you have time. Thank you very much. Best regards, Peitao Jia 小葱 1256275333(a)qq.com  

1 month, 2 weeks

Fwd: Re: [rt.sysmocom.de #74835] Help on pySim-shell-py

by Dushyantha Mahadeviah

Hello, I am trying to update EF.EHPLMN with around 20 PLMNs. With edit_binary_decoded, I am able to add them successfully. But I am trying to update them directly using update_binary_decoded command from from the pySim-shell prompt. But I am not working. It would be really helpful if somebody could help me with it. Below is the full list of commands that I tried. Welcome to pySim-shell! (C) 2021-2023 by Harald Welte, sysmocom - s.f.m.c. GmbH and contributors Online manual available at https://downloads.osmocom.org/docs/pysim/master/html/shell.html pySIM-shell (00:MF)> verify_adm 54815333 pySIM-shell (00:MF)> select ADF.USIM { "file_descriptor": { "file_descriptor_byte": { "shareable": true, "file_type": "df", "structure": "no_info_given" }, "record_len": null, "num_of_rec": null }, "df_name": "a0000000871002ffffffff8907090000", "proprietary_information": { "uicc_characteristics": "71", "available_memory": 96880 }, "life_cycle_status_integer": "operational_activated", "security_attrib_compact": "00", "pin_status_template_do": [ { "ps_do": "70" }, { "key_reference": 1 }, { "key_reference": 129 }, { "key_reference": 10 }, { "key_reference": 11 } ] } pySIM-shell (00:MF/ADF.USIM)> select EF.EHPLMN { "file_descriptor": { "file_descriptor_byte": { "shareable": true, "file_type": "working_ef", "structure": "transparent" }, "record_len": null, "num_of_rec": null }, "file_identifier": "6fd9", "proprietary_information": { "unknown_ber_tlv_ie_d0": { "raw": "20" }, "toolkit_access_conditions": { "rfm_create": true, "rfm_delete_terminate": true, "other_applet_create": true, "other_applet_delete_terminate": true } }, "life_cycle_status_integer": "operational_activated", "security_attrib_referenced": { "ef_arr_file_id": "6f06", "ef_arr_record_nr": 3 }, "file_size": 66, "short_file_identifier": 29 } pySIM-shell (00:MF/ADF.USIM/EF.EHPLMN)> read_binary_decoded [ { "mcc": "901", "mnc": "70" }, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null, null ] pySIM-shell (00:MF/ADF.USIM/EF.EHPLMN)> update_binary_decoded --json-path mcc 405 pySIM-shell (00:MF/ADF.USIM/EF.EHPLMN)> read_binary_decoded [ { "mcc": "901", "mnc": "70" }, null, null, null, Thanks and Regards, Dushyanth Sent using {0} ============ Forwarded message ============ From: Harald Welte via RT <support(a)sysmocom.de> To: <dushyanthm(a)zohomail.in> Date: Mon, 20 May 2024 19:01:10 +0530 Subject: Re: [rt.sysmocom.de #74835] Help on pySim-shell-py ============ Forwarded message ============ Please contact the mailto:simtrace@lists.osmocom.org mailing list and copy+paste the full command and response of the non working example. -- Sent from my mobile phone. Please excuse my brevity.

2 months, 1 week

Banks PCSC transaction timeout with Card mute or absent

by James Tavares

Hello, I am having difficulty with a particular SIM card over osmo-remsim. On the bank daemon side, PCSC is timing out after 1 second on the same transaction (modemToCard: 81f2400202) after every reset. This behavior is very reliable and happens on every reset/initialization sequence from the modem. When I enable PCSC debugging, I see it is getting back the error CCID error 0xFE “Card absent or mute” from the CCID reader. When I use this card directly attached to the modem, everything is fine and the modem can go online (but I have no insight as to whether the modem is encountering an issue with the same APDU, or not).f When this transaction error occurs, osmo-remsim-bankd closes the connection, leading to a removal/insertion and card reset event. So, the system is in infinite loop of resetting the card, making a bunch of successful APDU transactions, timing out on the offending transaction, and then resetting again all over again... As an experiment, I changed osmo-remsim-bankd behavior to ignore the PCSC error, leave the connection open, and return a general error (0x6F 0x00) to the modem. When I do that, the modem periodically re-sends the offending APDU every few seconds, but, despite that, everything else is fine and the modem can now go online with this card over osmo-remsim. I’m thinking either card needs more time to answer this query, or perhaps it does not support this query at all. Based on some earlier troubleshooting it appears to be related to eSIM (eUICC) functionality. This particular card reports as an eSIM (side note: curiously, its EID is blank). When I use old modem firmware that does not support eSIM capabilities, the card works just fine over osmo-remsim. It is only when I upgrade the modem firmware to a version that supports eSIM that this problem appears. Other things I tried: - Upgrading to latest libccid and pcsc-lite — no change - Using a different card reader with different chip set — no change, and both are listed as “should be supported” by pcsc-lite. A couple questions: - Is there a way to change the timeout? I tried modifying libccid to set bBWI to 0xFF for this transaction (it was 0x00), but that had to effect. Internal timeouts within pcscd seem to be set to 3 seconds, and so I do not think they are coming into play, here. - What are your feelings on having osmo-remsim-bankd ignore this error and return a 0x6f 0x00? - Any other ideas? Here is the truncated log of traffic leading up to the offending APDU: local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.221037 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:793 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Tx RSPRO tpduCardToModem(621982054221001c0383026f408a01058b036f06058002005488009000) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.228286 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:766 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Rx RSPRO tpduModemToCard(00b208bc3e) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.242339 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:793 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Tx RSPRO tpduCardToModem(800101a40683010195010880015aa40683010a9501088401d4a40683010a950108ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff9000) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.250619 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:766 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Rx RSPRO tpduModemToCard(00b205043e) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.255170 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:793 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Tx RSPRO tpduCardToModem(800103a406830101950108800158a40683010a9501088401d4a40683010a950108ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff9000) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.263534 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:766 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Rx RSPRO tpduModemToCard(00b209043e) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.267873 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:793 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Tx RSPRO tpduCardToModem(800101a406830101950108800102a406830181950108800158a40683010a9501088401d4a40683010a950108ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff9000) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.276622 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:766 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Rx RSPRO tpduModemToCard(00b206043e) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.280369 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:793 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Tx RSPRO tpduCardToModem(8001019000800102a406830101950108800158a40683010a9501088401d4a40683010a950108ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff9000) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.288355 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:766 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Rx RSPRO tpduModemToCard(00b201043e) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.293560 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:793 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Tx RSPRO tpduCardToModem(800101900080015aa40683010a9501088401d4a40683010a950108ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff9000) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.304765 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:766 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Rx RSPRO tpduModemToCard(00a40804047fff6fc6) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.312115 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:793 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Tx RSPRO tpduCardToModem(611c) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.316190 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:766 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Rx RSPRO tpduModemToCard(00c000001c) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.319163 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:793 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Tx RSPRO tpduCardToModem(621a8205422100080183026fc68a01058b036f0601800200088801d09000) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.328212 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:766 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Rx RSPRO tpduModemToCard(00a2010408ffffffffffffffff) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.330957 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:793 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Tx RSPRO tpduCardToModem(6282) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:31.335619 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:766 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Rx RSPRO tpduModemToCard(81f2400202) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:32.363083 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_pcsc.c:319 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] SCardTransmit: Transaction failed. (0x80100016) local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:32.363239 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:970 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Error handling RSPRO local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:32.363364 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:1051 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Error -2146435050 occurred: Cleaning up state local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:32.375002 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1763 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:492 [000 B1:0 CONN_CLIENT_MAPPED_CARD] Changing state to ACCEPTING local4.info: 2024-03-26 03:10:32.378255 bdu-arm-ce-imx8mp bankd-wrapper[1762]: 1764 DBANKDW INFO ../../../git/src/bankd/bankd_main.c:1036 [001 B65535:65535 ACCEPTING] Accepted connection from 100.64.33.10:35063 And here is the experimental patch to osmo-remsim-bankd: diff --git a/src/bankd/bankd.h b/src/bankd/bankd.h index 8a48a21..3c0f18f 100644 --- a/src/bankd/bankd.h +++ b/src/bankd/bankd.h @@ -17,6 +17,8 @@ #include "rspro_client_fsm.h" #include "debug.h" +#define MAX_CONSECUTIVE_TRANSCEIVE_ERRORS 5 + extern struct value_string worker_state_names[]; #define LOGW(w, fmt, args...) \ @@ -102,6 +104,9 @@ struct bankd_worker { /* last known state of the SIM card reset indication */ bool last_resetActive; + + /* number of consecutive transceive errors */ + int consecutive_transceive_errors; }; /* bankd card reader driver operations */ diff --git a/src/bankd/bankd_main.c b/src/bankd/bankd_main.c index 90b05d8..c6cafe0 100644 --- a/src/bankd/bankd_main.c +++ b/src/bankd/bankd_main.c @@ -120,6 +120,7 @@ static struct bankd_worker *bankd_create_worker(struct bankd *bankd, unsigned in worker->ops = &pcsc_driver_ops; worker->last_vccPresent = true; /* allow cold reset should first indication be false */ worker->last_resetActive = false; /* allow warm reset should first indication be true */ + worker->consecutive_transceive_errors = 0; /* in the initial state, the worker has no client.fd, bank_slot or pcsc handle yet */ @@ -787,8 +788,21 @@ static int worker_handle_tpduModemToCard(struct bankd_worker *worker, const Rspr rc = worker->ops->transceive(worker, mdm2sim->data.buf, mdm2sim->data.size, rx_buf, &rx_buf_len); - if (rc < 0) - return rc; + + if (rc < 0) { + LOGW(worker, "Transceieve error %d (count %d/%d)\n", rc, + worker->consecutive_transceive_errors, MAX_CONSECUTIVE_TRANSCEIVE_ERRORS); + + if (++worker->consecutive_transceive_errors == MAX_CONSECUTIVE_TRANSCEIVE_ERRORS) { + return rc; + } + + rx_buf[0] = 0x6f; + rx_buf[1] = 0x00; + rx_buf_len = 2; + } + + worker->consecutive_transceive_errors = 0; LOGW(worker, "Tx RSPRO tpduCardToModem(%s)\n", osmo_hexdump_nospc(rx_buf, rx_buf_len)); /* encode response PDU and send it */ Regards, James

3 months, 3 weeks

PATCH malformed IMSI

by n4n5

Hello, Here is a patch for handling malformed IMSI If you misswrited your IMSI, it will be impossible to read or edit it again :( This patch fix that Thanks Goodbye

4 months, 2 weeks

pycrate repo update

by benoit michau

Dear osmocom developpers, This is just to let you know that the Python library pycrate has a new home : https://github.com/pycrate-org/pycrate. The packages on Pypi are now feeded from there. This library can be used in many cases dealing with mobile signalling. I wanted to let you know, as even if I am not aware of any osmocom projects depending on it, some of you may use the library from time to time, or could have local applications depending on it. Best Regards Benoit

4 months, 3 weeks

onomondo-uicc: open source SIM/UICC/USIM implementation

by Harald Welte

Hi all, behind the scenes, a team at sysmocom[1] has been helping IoT MVNO onomondo[2] implementing a pure software implementation of the GSM SIM / ETSI UICC / 3GPP USIM. The resulting software has now finally been released in the onomondo-uicc (see https://github.com/onomondo/onomondo-uicc) The implementation covers a rather feature-complete implementation of the file system (including access rules / permission model, PIN authentication), authentication (MILENAGE), and even OTA RFM (remote file management). You can run the code either in software (and access it via the vpcd ifd_handler to make it appear via PC/SC) or you can run it behind a SIMtrace2 in cardem mode. Or you could cross-compile the library to run on a microcontroller (assuming it has a ISO 7816 card-side UART) or directly within a cellular modem/baseband. Of course, beyond research this is only useful in situations where you are the operator (like in a private network) and hence know the K/OPc key material that allows you access to the cellular network. There is some overlap to the parallel work of Tomasz Lisowski's swsim[3] - sadly we were not in a position to release the onomondo-uicc code back then, so the duplication of effort could not be avoided. Regards, Harald [1] https://sysmocom.de/ [2] https://onomondo.com/ [3] https://github.com/tomasz-lisowski/swsim -- - Harald Welte <laforge(a)gnumonks.org> https://laforge.gnumonks.org/ ============================================================================ "Privacy in residential applications is a desirable marketing option." (ETSI EN 300 175-7 Ch. A6)

5 months

OsmoDevCall 2024-01-17: Exploring eUICC and eSIM using pySim, lpac and osmo-smdpp

by Harald Welte

Dear Osmocom community, we're happy to announce the next incarnation of OsmoDevCall. when: January 17, 2023 at 20:00 CET where: https://osmocom.org/OsmoDevCall (Big Blue Button) This time, @laforge will be presenting on Exploring eUICC and eSIM using pySim, lpac and osmo-smdpp This meeting will have the following schedule: 20:00 meet + greet 20:10 topic as outlined above 21:00 unstructured supplementary social event [*] Attendance is free of charge and open to anyone with an interest in Osmocom or open source cellular technologies. More information about OsmoDevCall, including the schedule for further upcoming events can be found at https://osmocom.org/projects/osmo-dev-con/wiki/OsmoDevCall Looking forward to meeting you soon! Best regards, Harald [*] this is how we started to call the "unstructured" part of osmocom developer conferences in the past, basically where anyone can talk about anything, no formal schedule or structure. -- - Harald Welte <laforge(a)osmocom.org> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/ ============================================================================ "Privacy in residential applications is a desirable marketing option." (ETSI EN 300 175-7 Ch. A6)

6 months, 1 week

OsmoDevCon 2024 planning

by Harald Welte

Hi all! [cross-post to make sure everyone knows about it, please follow-up-to the osmodevcon(a)lists.osmocom.org mailing list for further discussion] As I mentioned several times at different occasions, I really think we should put together a OsmoDevCon again. In case you don't know what that is, please see https://osmocom.org/projects/osmo-dev-con/wiki/OsmoDevCon We should have restarted already in 2023, but I really was too busy and it was a somewhat difficult year for me at times, sorry. Date ---- In terms of timing, I am thinking about "after April but before the main summer holiday season (June-August)". That leaves May. Given that May has the whitsunday weekend as well as GPN (Gulaschprogrammiernacht, a CCC event that will likely conflict of interest with some people interested at attending OsmoDevCon), I'm currently considering the following candidate dates: * May 3 to 6 * May 24 to 27 This is as usual a friday-to-monday timeframe, allowing people who don't work professionally on osmocom to attend just the two weekendd days, while others can attend the full 4 days. Venue ----- In terms of venue, I'm hoping we can move to a slightly different arrangement where the whole group stays together for the whole duration of the event - as opposed to everyone staying at different hotels and having to commute from hotel to venue and back every day. So something like a hotel with a sufficiently large meeting room, hotels and catering all day. And all of that ideally at a nice venue with some kind of park / outdoor area, not downtown at the city center. Yes, that will obviously come at a higher price tag than we're used to - but I'm confident we can get that covered between sponsors and sysmocom. Do you guys think this is a good idea? Or would you prefer the traditional ad-hoc approach at IN-Berlin? Regards, Harald -- - Harald Welte <laforge(a)gnumonks.org> https://laforge.gnumonks.org/ ============================================================================ "Privacy in residential applications is a desirable marketing option." (ETSI EN 300 175-7 Ch. A6)

7 months

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