Dear all, I'am new in this mailing list. I'am a PhD. student at the University Rovira i Virgili studying smart cards (SC). I would like to log transmitted apdus between reader and SC (like credit card, ID card, sim, etc). I've recently bought a cheap sniffer (season interface) but I have problems with it, I lose data sniffing any smart card type (iso-7816). I'm asking if your device (v1.1) is valid for this purpose. Note that v2 would be compatible with credit card sized smart cards (ID-1 and ID-000 smart card slots (with presence detection): so to be able to also sniff credit card sized smart cards). However, I've read too that v1.1 is capable to read smart card with both modes (T=0 and T=1) with proper accessories (http://shop.sysmocom.de/products/fullsize-sim-fpc and http://shop.sysmocom.de/products/sim-adapter). It is possible? With this device, I will log any smart card type? Roger Jardí Personal de Suport a la Recerca Grup de recerca CRISES Departament d'Enginyeria Informàtica i Matemàtiques Universitat Rovira i Virgili Despatx 132 Av. Països Catalans 26 43007 TARRAGONA Tel. +34 977 55 82 70
Hi, Excerpts from Roger Jardi Cedó's message of Tue Nov 13 17:45:40 +0100 2012:
Dear all,
I'am new in this mailing list.
I'am a PhD. student at the University Rovira i Virgili studying smart cards (SC). I would like to log transmitted apdus between reader and SC (like credit card, ID card, sim, etc).
I've recently bought a cheap sniffer (season interface) but I have problems with it, I lose data sniffing any smart card type (iso-7816).
I'm asking if your device (v1.1) is valid for this purpose. Note that v2 would be compatible with credit card sized smart cards (ID-1 and ID-000 smart card slots (with presence detection): so to be able to also sniff credit card sized smart cards).
SIMtrace v2 has no release date and is not currently being developed on. Thus stay with the current version (v1.2).
However, I've read too that v1.1 is capable to read smart card with both modes (T=0 and T=1) with proper accessories (http://shop.sysmocom.de/products/fullsize-sim-fpc and http://shop.sysmocom.de/products/sim-adapter).
Yes, this is what you need for credit card size connectivity.
It is possible? With this device, I will log any smart card type?
no, not any. It only supports T=0 and T=1 (with few adjustments). This protocols are defined in IEC/ISO-7816 part 3. Other Smart cards can use other protocols (I2C, SPI, …). It may be possible to be compatible with it, but these are not supported by the software. kevin
Hello, I'm sorry, I wanted to refer to ISO 7816-3 smart card (T=0 and T=1) like Java Card.
no, not any. It only supports T=0 and T=1 (with few adjustments). This protocols are defined in IEC/ISO-7816 part 3. Other Smart cards can use other protocols (I2C, SPI, …). It may be possible to be compatible with it, but these are not supported by the software.
So, what kind of adjustments are these? Could you please detail them? Thank you!!! Roger. ----- Missatge original ----- De: Kevin Redon <ml@mail.tsaitgaist.info> Data: Dimarts, Novembre 13, 2012 21:42 Assumpte: Re: T=0 and T=1 sniffer Per a: simtrace <simtrace@lists.osmocom.org>
Hi,
Excerpts from Roger Jardi Cedó's message of Tue Nov 13 17:45:40 +0100 2012:
Dear all,
I'am new in this mailing list.
I'am a PhD. student at the University Rovira i Virgili studying smart cards (SC). I would like to log transmitted apdus between reader and SC (like credit card, ID card, sim, etc).
I've recently bought a cheap sniffer (season interface) but I have problems with it, I lose data sniffing any smart card type (iso-7816).
I'm asking if your device (v1.1) is valid for this purpose. Note that v2 would be compatible with credit card sized smart cards (ID-1 and ID-000 smart card slots (with presence detection): so to be able to also sniff credit card sized smart cards). SIMtrace v2 has no release date and is not currently being developed on. Thus stay with the current version (v1.2).
However, I've read too that v1.1 is capable to read smart card with both modes (T=0 and T=1) with proper accessories (http://shop.sysmocom.de/products/fullsize-sim-fpc and http://shop.sysmocom.de/products/sim-adapter).
Yes, this is what you need for credit card size connectivity.
It is possible? With this device, I will log any smart card type?
no, not any. It only supports T=0 and T=1 (with few adjustments). This protocols are defined in IEC/ISO-7816 part 3. Other Smart cards can use other protocols (I2C, SPI, …). It may be possible to be compatible with it, but these are not supported by the software.
kevin
Roger Jardí Personal de Suport a la Recerca Grup de recerca CRISES Departament d'Enginyeria Informàtica i Matemàtiques Universitat Rovira i Virgili Despatx 132 Av. Països Catalans 26 43007 TARRAGONA Tel. +34 977 55 82 70
Hi, Excerpts from Roger Jardi Cedó's message of Tue Nov 13 23:40:48 +0100 2012:
Hello,
I'm sorry, I wanted to refer to ISO 7816-3 smart card (T=0 and T=1) like Java Card.
no, not any. It only supports T=0 and T=1 (with few adjustments). This protocols are defined in IEC/ISO-7816 part 3. Other Smart cards can use other protocols (I2C, SPI, …). It may be possible to be compatible with it, but these are not supported by the software.
So, what kind of adjustments are these? Could you please detail them?
I don't know exactly, as I never tested. The hardware is fully compatible. T=0 and T=1 are quite similar, and I don't know if any adjustment is required on the firmware. Maybe the firmware only needs to tell the micro-controller to switch to T=1, and then it works flawlessly. Harald Welte would be able to answer this question in more details, but he is not online before next week. Does your smart card not support T=0, or is the communication you want to sniff using T=1? AFAIK T=0 is the most used and supported protocol. T=1 is mainly if you want to have "high speed" communication. kevin
Hi,
Does your smart card not support T=0, or is the communication you want to sniff using T=1? AFAIK T=0 is the most used and supported protocol. T=1 is mainly if you want to have "high speed" communication.
I'm interested on both modes. I've SC working in T=0 and other in T=1. On my development environment is common the use of T=1. I hope that Harald can solve that...I'm strong interested. Thank you very much. ----- Missatge original ----- De: Kevin Redon <ml@mail.tsaitgaist.info> Data: Dimecres, Novembre 14, 2012 10:24 Assumpte: Re: T=0 and T=1 sniffer Per a: simtrace <simtrace@lists.osmocom.org>
Hi,
Excerpts from Roger Jardi Cedó's message of Tue Nov 13 23:40:48 +0100 2012:
Hello,
I'm sorry, I wanted to refer to ISO 7816-3 smart card (T=0 and T=1) like Java Card.
no, not any. It only supports T=0 and T=1 (with few adjustments). This protocols are defined in IEC/ISO-7816 part 3. Other Smart cards can use other protocols (I2C, SPI, …). It may be possible to be compatible with it, but these are not supported by the software.
So, what kind of adjustments are these? Could you please detail them?
I don't know exactly, as I never tested. The hardware is fully compatible. T=0 and T=1 are quite similar, and I don't know if any adjustment is required on the firmware. Maybe the firmware only needs to tell the micro-controller to switch to T=1, and then it works flawlessly. Harald Welte would be able to answer this question in more details, but he is not online before next week.
Does your smart card not support T=0, or is the communication you want to sniff using T=1? AFAIK T=0 is the most used and supported protocol. T=1 is mainly if you want to have "high speed" communication.
kevin
Roger Jardí Personal de Suport a la Recerca Grup de recerca CRISES Departament d'Enginyeria Informàtica i Matemàtiques Universitat Rovira i Virgili Despatx 132 Av. Països Catalans 26 43007 TARRAGONA Tel. +34 977 55 82 70
Hi,
T=0 and T=1 are quite similar, and I don't know if any adjustment is required on the firmware. Maybe the firmware only needs to tell the micro-controller to switch to T=1, and then it works flawlessly. Harald Welte would be able to answer this question in more details, but he is not online before next week.
Mmm, although they are similar at the higer levels, T=0 and T=1 are pretty different at the 'byte' level and I'm pretty sure you'll need to adapt both the firmware and the host app (since it tries to interpret the bytes to fw entire APDU to wireshark). Cheers, Sylvain
Hi all, On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 01:21:45PM +0100, Sylvain Munaut wrote:
Mmm, although they are similar at the higer levels, T=0 and T=1 are pretty different at the 'byte' level and I'm pretty sure you'll need to adapt both the firmware and the host app (since it tries to interpret the bytes to fw entire APDU to wireshark).
Yes, this is true. I think I remember having started to work on T=1 support at some point in the past, but I cannot find the code anywhere. Maybe it was just an idea, after all. The hardware can definietly do it. One of the reasons it is not implemented in firmware / host software yet is simple: All SIM cards are mandated to also support T=0, and I don't think I've ever seen a phone that actually uses T=1. So there are many other tasks higher up on the priority list than the mostly "scientific" interest in T=1 support, sorry. Regards, Harald -- - Harald Welte <laforge@gnumonks.org> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/ ============================================================================ "Privacy in residential applications is a desirable marketing option." (ETSI EN 300 175-7 Ch. A6)
Many thanks to all of you. My question has been solved!!!! ;) Roger Jardí Personal de Suport a la Recerca Grup de recerca CRISES Departament d'Enginyeria Informàtica i Matemàtiques Universitat Rovira i Virgili Despatx 132 Av. Països Catalans 26 43007 TARRAGONA Tel. +34 977 55 82 70
participants (5)
-
"Roger Jardi Cedó" -
Harald Welte -
Kevin Redon -
Peter Stuge -
Sylvain Munaut