28 Oct
2012
28 Oct
'12
7:08 p.m.
1. Power supply, 12V-18V DC, >=20W.
I think it's easier to find a PSU with a standard round DC connector,
like this one and thus we need a converter cable to our Molex power
connector.
http://domino2.kycon.com/catalog_PDF/KLDX_SMT2.pdf
Not knowing center pin polarity or exact center pin size, it seems as
though digikey
(http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/power-supplies-external-internal-o…)
has 348 that are 12-18v output, 10-20w, and have connectors that are
2.1mm ID to 2.5mm ID
On a side note, for power -Something that could come in useful since
its got ethernet, PoE?
2. Enclosure. We'd love to have a nice table-top enclosure for UmTRX,
but it requires a significant effort to source, design and assemble.
If anyone has some preexisting case designs, there's always protocase
(protocase.com) or Rapid sheet metal
(http://www.rapidsheetmetal.com/parts/enclosures.aspx) -Im sure theres
plenty of other sheetmetal fabshops that will do custom work though,
If youre wanting to use something a bit more generic -Theres
enclosurehub.com
28 Oct
28 Oct
7:26 p.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
Hi Darby,
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Darby <darbysgoodies(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I haven't realized that DigiKey, Avnet and others have PSU section, thanks!
Interesting. Do you know similar ones in Europe? We manufacture in
France and shipping enclosures from US doesn't look like a good idea.
--
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
1. Power
supply, 12V-18V DC, >=20W.
I think it's easier to find a PSU with a standard round DC connector,
like this one and thus we need a converter cable to our Molex power
connector.
http://domino2.kycon.com/catalog_PDF/KLDX_SMT2.pdf
Not knowing center pin polarity or exact center pin size, it seems as
though digikey
(http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/power-supplies-external-internal-o…)
has 348 that are 12-18v output, 10-20w, and have connectors that are
2.1mm ID to 2.5mm ID On a side note, for power -Something that could come
in useful since
its got ethernet, PoE?
PoE is an option, but UmTRX require too much power for the standard
PoE and we think that for lab usage PoE is an overkill.
2. Enclosure.
We'd love to have a nice table-top enclosure for UmTRX,
but it requires a significant effort to source, design and assemble.
If anyone has some preexisting case designs, there's always protocase
(protocase.com) or Rapid sheet metal
(http://www.rapidsheetmetal.com/parts/enclosures.aspx) -Im sure theres
plenty of other sheetmetal fabshops that will do custom work though,
If youre wanting to use something a bit more generic -Theres
enclosurehub.com
8:31 p.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Alexander Chemeris
<alexander.chemeris(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Whats the total power budget? 802.3AF should be kosher with 13w at the
device, 802.3AT (PoE+) should be good up to a little over 20w
Im with you on the lab piece, Im just thinking of a seemingly
ubiquitous power source in a industrial environment -I bring this up
since so many industrial Wifi AP's (Gateworks, JJPlus, etc.) are PoE
powered
Interesting. Do you know similar ones in Europe? We manufacture in
France and shipping enclosures from US doesn't look like a good idea.
Not that Im aware of, I know of protocase since they did the backblaze
storage pods & you can order anything from them in individual piece
quantities -But thats not to say that there arent plenty of others
that offer the same services, I would imagine there would be a fair
amount of places in europe that will do sheet metal enclosures -If you
want something extruded though, they might have a MoQ to make the cost
of the die fabrication feasible...?
Hi Darby,
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Darby <darbysgoodies(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I haven't realized that DigiKey, Avnet and others have PSU section, thanks!
Anytime =)
1. Power
supply, 12V-18V DC, >=20W.
I think it's easier to find a PSU with a standard round DC connector,
like this one and thus we need a converter cable to our Molex power
connector.
http://domino2.kycon.com/catalog_PDF/KLDX_SMT2.pdf
Not knowing center pin polarity or exact center pin size, it seems as
though digikey
(http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/power-supplies-external-internal-o…)
has 348 that are 12-18v output, 10-20w, and have connectors that are
2.1mm ID to 2.5mm ID On a side
note, for power -Something that could come in useful since
its got ethernet, PoE?
PoE is an option, but UmTRX require too much power for the standard
PoE and we think that for lab usage PoE is an overkill.
2. Enclosure. We'd love to have a nice table-top
enclosure for UmTRX,
but it requires a significant effort to source, design and assemble.
If anyone has some preexisting case designs, there's always protocase
(protocase.com) or Rapid sheet metal
(http://www.rapidsheetmetal.com/parts/enclosures.aspx) -Im sure theres
plenty of other sheetmetal fabshops that will do custom work though,
If youre wanting to use something a bit more generic -Theres
enclosurehub.com --
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
10:20 p.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Darby <darbysgoodies(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting. Do you know similar ones in Europe? We manufacture in
France and shipping enclosures from US doesn't look like a good idea.
Not that Im aware of, I know of protocase since they did the backblaze
storage pods & you can order anything from them in individual piece
quantities -But thats not to say that there arent plenty of others
that offer the same services, I would imagine there would be a fair
amount of places in europe that will do sheet metal enclosures -If you
want something extruded though, they might have a MoQ to make the cost
of the die fabrication feasible...?
With 15W-20W power consumption Andrey Sviyazov is worried that a sheet
metal enclosure might not be enough. I'm still inclined to give it a
try for a lab enclosure, though.
That said, we don't have manpower to do this right now. I estimate
this as at least a week of work and thus as I mentioned - if someone
is willing to make a design, we're ready to assist by all means.
--
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Alexander Chemeris
<alexander.chemeris(a)gmail.com> wrote:
According to our latest measurements, UmTRX alone requires ~15W:
https://code.google.com/p/umtrx/wiki/UmTRXv2_Power
If you add UmSEL, it will add few Watts as well, but it should be
below 20W I think. So PoE+ may be an option for a UmTRX without an
external PA.
When we discussed internally, we discarded embedded PoE for a couple of reasons:
1. We focused on medium-range cells which would need an external PA.
And in this case we're out of PoE power range. In case of a pico-cell
output power (50-200mW) we could do with PoE.
2. We decided that for the first iteration we'd better focus on more
important issues and use an external PoE adapter if needed.
3. PoE by default has 58VDC output. We replaced all capacitors to
tantalum ones and IIRC there was a concern that increasing input
voltage range to 48VDC may considerably add to the BOM cost. This is
according to my memories - I hope Andrey Sviyazov could correct me if
I'm wrong.
Taking all this into account, I think we might consider adding PoE
option in some later version, but it's not a focus for us now. If
someone wants to help us in adding this feature - please go ahead.
It's an open-source project after all.
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Darby
<darbysgoodies(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Whats the total power budget? 802.3AF should be kosher with 13w at the
device, 802.3AT (PoE+) should be good up to a little over 20w
Im with you on the lab piece, Im just thinking of a seemingly
ubiquitous power source in a industrial environment -I bring this up
since so many industrial Wifi AP's (Gateworks, JJPlus, etc.) are PoE
powered On a side note, for power -Something that could
come in useful since
its got ethernet, PoE?
PoE is an option, but UmTRX require too much power for the standard
PoE and we think that for lab usage PoE is an overkill.
2. Enclosure.
We'd love to have a nice table-top enclosure for UmTRX,
but it requires a significant effort to source, design and assemble.
If anyone has some preexisting case designs, there's always protocase
(protocase.com) or Rapid sheet metal
(http://www.rapidsheetmetal.com/parts/enclosures.aspx) -Im sure theres
plenty of other sheetmetal fabshops that will do custom work though,
If youre wanting to use something a bit more generic -Theres
enclosurehub.com 
29 Oct
29 Oct
10:32 a.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
1) POE components still very expensive for 1GBe and -40 deg C.
2) We'll experiment with POE when 100MB will possible to use.
Anyway, it should be some sppecial design like nanoBTS, for example.
Best regards,
Andrey Sviyazov.
P.S. why issue 35?
2012/10/29 Alexander Chemeris <alexander.chemeris(a)gmail.com>
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Darby
<darbysgoodies(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Whats the total power budget? 802.3AF should be kosher with 13w at the
device, 802.3AT (PoE+) should be good up to a little over 20w
Im with you on the lab piece, Im just thinking of a seemingly
ubiquitous power source in a industrial environment -I bring this up
since so many industrial Wifi AP's (Gateworks, JJPlus, etc.) are PoE
powered
According to our latest measurements, UmTRX alone requires ~15W:
https://code.google.com/p/umtrx/wiki/UmTRXv2_Power
If you add UmSEL, it will add few Watts as well, but it should be
below 20W I think. So PoE+ may be an option for a UmTRX without an
external PA.
When we discussed internally, we discarded embedded PoE for a couple of
reasons:
1. We focused on medium-range cells which would need an external PA.
And in this case we're out of PoE power range. In case of a pico-cell
output power (50-200mW) we could do with PoE.
2. We decided that for the first iteration we'd better focus on more
important issues and use an external PoE adapter if needed.
3. PoE by default has 58VDC output. We replaced all capacitors to
tantalum ones and IIRC there was a concern that increasing input
voltage range to 48VDC may considerably add to the BOM cost. This is
according to my memories - I hope Andrey Sviyazov could correct me if
I'm wrong.
Taking all this into account, I think we might consider adding PoE
option in some later version, but it's not a focus for us now. If
someone wants to help us in adding this feature - please go ahead.
It's an open-source project after all.
Not that Im aware of, I know of protocase since they did the backblaze
storage pods & you can order anything from them in individual piece
quantities -But thats not to say that there arent plenty of others
that offer the same services, I would imagine there would be a fair
amount of places in europe that will do sheet metal enclosures -If you
want something extruded though, they might have a MoQ to make the cost
of the die fabrication feasible...?
With 15W-20W power consumption Andrey Sviyazov is worried that a sheet
metal enclosure might not be enough. I'm still inclined to give it a
try for a lab enclosure, though.
That said, we don't have manpower to do this right now. I estimate
this as at least a week of work and thus as I mentioned - if someone
is willing to make a design, we're ready to assist by all means.
--
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Alexander
Chemeris
<alexander.chemeris(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Darby <darbysgoodies(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On a side note, for power -Something that could come
in useful since
its got ethernet, PoE?
PoE is an option, but UmTRX require too much power for the standard
PoE and we think that for lab usage PoE is an overkill.
> 2. Enclosure. We'd love to have a nice
table-top enclosure for UmTRX,
> but it requires a significant effort to source, design and assemble.
If anyone has some preexisting case designs, there's always protocase
(protocase.com) or Rapid sheet metal
(http://www.rapidsheetmetal.com/parts/enclosures.aspx) -Im sure theres
plenty of other sheetmetal fabshops that will do custom work though,
If youre wanting to use something a bit more generic -Theres
enclosurehub.com
Interesting. Do you know similar ones in Europe? We manufacture in
France and shipping enclosures from US doesn't look like a good idea.
10:40 a.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Andrey Sviyazov <andreysviyaz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
1) POE components still very expensive for 1GBe and
-40 deg C.
We don't need -40C rating for them. PoE is useful for nano-BTS
deployments and those are mostly in-doors, I think.
2) We'll experiment with POE when 100MB will
possible to use.
Anyway, it should be some sppecial design like nanoBTS, for example.
Why can't we have it as an option for indoor nano-BTS style installations?
P.S. why issue 35?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
--
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
10:54 a.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
Hi Alexander, Hi Andrey,
I am not sure we would need a specific design for PoE.
We could also keep our current design and provide a PoE splitter with a
plug adaptor.
This would let us keep our current design and make the UmTRX work with PoE.
Best regards.
Jean-Samuel.
:-)
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Alexander Chemeris <
alexander.chemeris(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Andrey Sviyazov
<andreysviyaz(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
1) POE components still very expensive for 1GBe
and -40 deg C.
We don't need -40C rating for them. PoE is useful for nano-BTS
deployments and those are mostly in-doors, I think.
2) We'll experiment with POE when 100MB will
possible to use.
Anyway, it should be some sppecial design like nanoBTS, for example.
Why can't we have it as an option for indoor nano-BTS style installations?
P.S. why issue 35?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
--
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
10:59 a.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
For example, we might provide such a splitter (10/100/1000 25 Watts at
12/24V).
http://www.planet.com.tw/en/product/product_ov.php?id=39714
:-)
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS SARL <
jsn(a)bjtpartners.com> wrote:
Hi Alexander, Hi Andrey,
I am not sure we would need a specific design for PoE.
We could also keep our current design and provide a PoE splitter with a
plug adaptor.
This would let us keep our current design and make the UmTRX work with PoE.
Best regards.
Jean-Samuel.
:-)
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Alexander Chemeris <
alexander.chemeris(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Andrey Sviyazov
<andreysviyaz(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
1) POE components still very expensive for 1GBe
and -40 deg C.
We don't need -40C rating for them. PoE is useful for nano-BTS
deployments and those are mostly in-doors, I think.
2) We'll experiment with POE when 100MB will
possible to use.
Anyway, it should be some sppecial design like nanoBTS, for example.
Why can't we have it as an option for indoor nano-BTS style installations?
P.S. why issue 35?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
--
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
1:20 p.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
Thanks for the link. I've added it to the wiki:
https://code.google.com/p/umtrx/wiki/PowerSupply
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS
SARL <jsn(a)bjtpartners.com> wrote:
For example, we might provide such a splitter
(10/100/1000 25 Watts at
12/24V).
http://www.planet.com.tw/en/product/product_ov.php?id=39714
:-)
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS SARL
<jsn(a)bjtpartners.com> wrote:
--
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
Hi Alexander, Hi Andrey,
I am not sure we would need a specific design for PoE.
We could also keep our current design and provide a PoE splitter with a
plug adaptor.
This would let us keep our current design and make the UmTRX work with
PoE.
Best regards.
Jean-Samuel.
:-)
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Alexander Chemeris
<alexander.chemeris(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Andrey Sviyazov <andreysviyaz(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
1) POE components still very expensive for 1GBe
and -40 deg C.
We don't need -40C rating for them. PoE is useful for nano-BTS
deployments and those are mostly in-doors, I think.
2) We'll experiment with POE when 100MB will
possible to use.
Anyway, it should be some sppecial design like nanoBTS, for example.
Why can't we have it as an option for indoor nano-BTS style
installations?
P.S. why issue 35?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
--
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
1:18 p.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
Hi Jean-Samuel,
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS
SARL <jsn(a)bjtpartners.com> wrote:
I am not sure we would need a specific design for
PoE.
We could also keep our current design and provide a PoE splitter with a plug
adaptor.
This would let us keep our current design and make the UmTRX work with PoE.
Yes, that's what we could do initially, it's not something we need
urgently. The discussion is whether we should consider this for some
later revision of UmTRX.
The concern about a separate PoE splitter is that it might reduce
overall system reliability. OTOH, it's easier to replace a broken
separate PoE splitter then replace the whole UmTRX if built-in PoE is
broken. AT the same time, separate PoE is more expensive and require
more space. Thus it's not clear to me whether a built-in PoE would be
a benefit or not.
--
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
10:44 a.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
Hi,
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Andrey Sviyazov
<andreysviyaz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
1) POE components still very expensive for 1GBe and
-40 deg C.
Well as Alexander pointed out, I think PoE makes more sense in short
range pico cell applications and I'm not sure the whole temp range is
such an issue for those applications.
Cheers,
Sylvain
11:09 a.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
Yes, be sure, I know why we need POE.
If we no more need outdoor then I agree.
And it will be separate design because we'll never get -40C as we need now.
Best regards,
Andrey Sviyazov.
P.S.
I mean why "Re: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35" ?
2012/10/29 Sylvain Munaut <246tnt(a)gmail.com>
Hi,
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Andrey Sviyazov
<andreysviyaz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
1) POE components still very expensive for 1GBe
and -40 deg C.
Well as Alexander pointed out, I think PoE makes more sense in short
range pico cell applications and I'm not sure the whole temp range is
such an issue for those applications.
Cheers,
Sylvain
11:25 a.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
Hi Jean-Samuel.
You are absolutely right.
But I see that price in Russia market around $150.
And you should agree that it Is not such cheap as we wish.
So, using 100MB LAN per UmTRX board and internal PoE
for -40..+75C seem realistic to be implemented in future.
On other hand we can start to design openPoE project :)
Best regards,
Andrey Sviyazov.
2012/10/29 Andrey Sviyazov <andreysviyaz(a)gmail.com>
Yes, be sure, I know why we need POE.
If we no more need outdoor then I agree.
And it will be separate design because we'll never get -40C as we need now.
Best regards,
Andrey Sviyazov.
P.S.
I mean why "Re: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35" ?
2012/10/29 Sylvain Munaut <246tnt(a)gmail.com>
Hi,
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Andrey Sviyazov
<andreysviyaz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
1) POE components still very expensive for 1GBe
and -40 deg C.
Well as Alexander pointed out, I think PoE makes more sense in short
range pico cell applications and I'm not sure the whole temp range is
such an issue for those applications.
Cheers,
Sylvain
1:31 p.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Andrey Sviyazov <andreysviyaz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On other hand we can start to design openPoE project
:)
Why not? I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to use it.
--
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
1:23 p.m.
New subject: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Andrey Sviyazov <andreysviyaz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
And it will be separate design because we'll never
get -40C as we need now.
Is there anything which prevents us from having it as an option on the
PCB? Then we would be able to decide whether we need it or not at
population time.
P.S.
I mean why "Re: UmTRX Digest, Vol 4, Issue 35" ?
Darby is receiving e-mails from this mailing list in a digested
(batch) form. I.e. all e-mails from a given period of time come as a
single huge e-mail. And this huge e-mail has its subject like above.
--
Regards,
Alexander Chemeris.
CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ООО УмРадио
http://fairwaves.ru
4202
days inactive
4203
days old
14 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Alexander Chemeris -
Andrey Sviyazov -
Darby -
Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS SARL -
Sylvain Munaut