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dexter zero-kelvin at gmx.deHi folks. > > How do they do that? As far as I know Kc shouldn't be extracted (except from > very old cards). I would be better to know to have an open source sw that > allow us to understand... > The Kc is only the session key. The Ki is the key that you can not extract. I had a similar problem some time ago. I wanted to get the current kc in realtime. My solution was to sniff the kc from the data stream between sim and phone. The kc occurs in 2 ways: 1. When RUN-GSM-ALGORITHM is executed and when the phone stores the Kc back on the simcard. You can download the sourcecode, layouts for my approach at: http://www.runningserver.com/software/chipcardlab.tar The hardest task is to sniff the data because the baudrate of the communication is not a standard baudrate. You can also try to get simtrace (http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/SIMtrace) running. I did not test it yet but i think it can achieve the same. You could also find a phone where you can read the Kc by sending APDUs through AT-Commands. Some Blackberrys have a netmonitor mode that can display the Kc. regards. Philipp