From hej at c3pb.de Thu Jan 17 08:01:55 2013 From: hej at c3pb.de (Helge Jung) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 09:01:55 +0100 Subject: EasterHegg 2013 with =?UTF-8?Q?GSM=3F?= Message-ID: Hi, we already spoke about this with some guys in the 29c3 MOC room and yesterday in #osmocom: we invite you to operate a GSM test network on the EasterHegg 2013. The event starts on March 29 (Good Friday), ends on April 1 (Easter Monday) and is located in Paderborn, Germany (see [1] for an exact location). We expect 250-300 participants from the CCC family. As usual the POC is there with the DECT stuff, so you can team up with them if you like. The EasterHegg has a workshop-like character so it is maybe easier to test (new) features and - for example - experiment with GPRS, EDGE and stuff (btw, are mobile phones IPv6-ready?). Our request for a test license (2 ARFCNs) will be sent to the BNetzA today. Looking forward to hear from you, Helge. [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlon=8.735322&mlat=51.713298&zoom=17 From ml at mail.tsaitgaist.info Fri Jan 18 08:37:58 2013 From: ml at mail.tsaitgaist.info (Kevin Redon) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:37:58 +0100 Subject: EasterHegg 2013 with GSM? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1358498278-sup-2256@dennou> Hi, I would be pleased to run the GSM network, but won't be in Germany during this period. I will ask around if others can. Thanks for the invitation, kevin Excerpts from Helge Jung's message of Thu Jan 17 09:01:55 +0100 2013: > Hi, > > we already spoke about this with some guys in the 29c3 MOC room and > yesterday in #osmocom: we invite you to operate a GSM test network on > the EasterHegg 2013. > > The event starts on March 29 (Good Friday), ends on April 1 (Easter > Monday) and is located in Paderborn, Germany (see [1] for an exact > location). We expect 250-300 participants from the CCC family. > > As usual the POC is there with the DECT stuff, so you can team up with > them if you like. The EasterHegg has a workshop-like character so it is > maybe easier to test (new) features and - for example - experiment with > GPRS, EDGE and stuff (btw, are mobile phones IPv6-ready?). > > Our request for a test license (2 ARFCNs) will be sent to the BNetzA > today. > > Looking forward to hear from you, > Helge. > > [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlon=8.735322&mlat=51.713298&zoom=17 From alexander.chemeris at gmail.com Thu Jan 24 21:20:47 2013 From: alexander.chemeris at gmail.com (Alexander Chemeris) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 01:20:47 +0400 Subject: GSM at OHM2013 Message-ID: Hi Harald, Holger, Peter, Do you have plans to run a (traditional) GSM network during the OHM2013? If so, we would like to join with the OpenBTS based network again. -- Regards, Alexander Chemeris. CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ??? ??????? http://fairwaves.ru From peter at stuge.se Thu Jan 24 23:06:21 2013 From: peter at stuge.se (Peter Stuge) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 00:06:21 +0100 Subject: GSM at OHM2013 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130124230621.17649.qmail@stuge.se> Hi Alexander, Alexander Chemeris wrote: > Do you have plans to run a (traditional) GSM network during the > OHM2013? If so, we would like to join with the OpenBTS based > network again. We tentatively plan to run some GSM at OHM, but it's still somewhat early for details. So far there is also no license, which of course has to be applied for by the event organizers locally. There will be a visit at the venue on March 9th. The location is: Geestmerambacht, Wagenweg 42, Noord-Scharwoude, The Netherlands (Situated just north of Amsterdam.) Harald is unavailable that week, but I may go there for the visit. //Peter From alexander.chemeris at gmail.com Fri Jan 25 11:19:45 2013 From: alexander.chemeris at gmail.com (Alexander Chemeris) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:19:45 +0400 Subject: GSM at OHM2013 In-Reply-To: <20130124230621.17649.qmail@stuge.se> References: <20130124230621.17649.qmail@stuge.se> Message-ID: Hi Peter, On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 3:06 AM, Peter Stuge wrote: > Alexander Chemeris wrote: >> Do you have plans to run a (traditional) GSM network during the >> OHM2013? If so, we would like to join with the OpenBTS based >> network again. > > We tentatively plan to run some GSM at OHM, but it's still somewhat > early for details. So far there is also no license, which of course > has to be applied for by the event organizers locally. Do you have an idea who could apply for the license? > There will be a visit at the venue on March 9th. The location is: > > Geestmerambacht, Wagenweg 42, Noord-Scharwoude, The Netherlands > > (Situated just north of Amsterdam.) > > Harald is unavailable that week, but I may go there for the visit. Yes, heard about that. Would be great to have some first hand information about the venue. My main question is who is going to be involved, as everything else depends on that. -- Regards, Alexander Chemeris. CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ??? ??????? http://fairwaves.ru From jsn at bjtpartners.com Fri Jan 25 13:41:33 2013 From: jsn at bjtpartners.com (Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 14:41:33 +0100 Subject: GSM at OHM2013 In-Reply-To: References: <20130124230621.17649.qmail@stuge.se> Message-ID: Hi Peter, It seems it is escpecially easy to get a GSM license in the Netherlands, at least if the DECT guard band part of the DCS 1800 is fine for us and if we accept to limit our transmission power. http://www.druidsoftware.com/news-low-power-gsm-progress.html Best regards. Jean-Samuel. :-) On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Alexander Chemeris < alexander.chemeris at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Peter, > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 3:06 AM, Peter Stuge wrote: > > Alexander Chemeris wrote: > >> Do you have plans to run a (traditional) GSM network during the > >> OHM2013? If so, we would like to join with the OpenBTS based > >> network again. > > > > We tentatively plan to run some GSM at OHM, but it's still somewhat > > early for details. So far there is also no license, which of course > > has to be applied for by the event organizers locally. > > Do you have an idea who could apply for the license? > > > There will be a visit at the venue on March 9th. The location is: > > > > Geestmerambacht, Wagenweg 42, Noord-Scharwoude, The Netherlands > > > > (Situated just north of Amsterdam.) > > > > Harald is unavailable that week, but I may go there for the visit. > > Yes, heard about that. Would be great to have some first hand > information about the venue. > > My main question is who is going to be involved, as everything else > depends on that. > > -- > Regards, > Alexander Chemeris. > CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ??? ??????? > http://fairwaves.ru > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter at stuge.se Fri Jan 25 19:59:34 2013 From: peter at stuge.se (Peter Stuge) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:59:34 +0100 Subject: GSM at OHM2013 In-Reply-To: References: <20130124230621.17649.qmail@stuge.se> Message-ID: <20130125195935.24812.qmail@stuge.se> Alexander Chemeris wrote: > Do you have an idea who could apply for the license? I don't have a name, but there has been a little bit of early contact with the organizers. Harald more or less set up a network alone at HAR2009, the previous similar camp in The Netherlands, and perhaps there is still some knowledge left among the organizers from that time. > > There will be a visit at the venue on March 9th. The location is: > > Yes, heard about that. Would be great to have some first hand > information about the venue. You or anyone you want to send are of course welcome to join. I haven't made a hard plan but tendency is that I will go there. > My main question is who is going to be involved, as everything else > depends on that. I think all the usual suspects will be there. :) //Peter From peter at stuge.se Fri Jan 25 20:11:51 2013 From: peter at stuge.se (Peter Stuge) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:11:51 +0100 Subject: GSM at OHM2013 In-Reply-To: References: <20130124230621.17649.qmail@stuge.se> Message-ID: <20130125201154.28663.qmail@stuge.se> Jean-Samuel Najnudel - BJT PARTNERS wrote: > It seems it is escpecially easy to get a GSM license in the Netherlands, at > least if the DECT guard band part of the DCS 1800 is fine for us and if we > accept to limit our transmission power. > http://www.druidsoftware.com/news-low-power-gsm-progress.html While good news in general, for an outdoor setup over a largeish area I'm not too keen on using 200mW equipment, the number of sites required to have good coverage will be rather high, and each site needs power and connectivity. We'll have at least one opportunity to run the Nokia MetroSite (which we used at CCC Camp two years ago) before OHM, and my hope is that we can make use of some more powerful radio hardware, MetroSite, BS-11, and/or SysmoBTS+SysmoAMP, at least for one or two main sites, and perhaps add smaller sites to handle any gaps in coverage. Building the backbone is high effort. //Peter From 246tnt at gmail.com Fri Jan 25 21:59:38 2013 From: 246tnt at gmail.com (Sylvain Munaut) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 22:59:38 +0100 Subject: GSM at OHM2013 In-Reply-To: <20130125201154.28663.qmail@stuge.se> References: <20130124230621.17649.qmail@stuge.se> <20130125201154.28663.qmail@stuge.se> Message-ID: Hi, > We'll have at least one opportunity to run the Nokia MetroSite (which > we used at CCC Camp two years ago) before OHM, and my hope is that we > can make use of some more powerful radio hardware, MetroSite, BS-11, > and/or SysmoBTS+SysmoAMP, at least for one or two main sites, and > perhaps add smaller sites to handle any gaps in coverage. Building > the backbone is high effort. Yeah, I'm definitely with you there, I'd try to put two large site using multi-trx high power Metro Site and omnis. We have the small cavity duplexers so you could even use those with the metrosite. We had a pretty good coverage at CCC camp AFAIR, so that should even be enough. We can maybe run an additional sysmobts + amp at our tent so we can load test it. But indeed trying to go place small nanobts or sysmobts in an outside open environment is not something I would be looking forward to. As for OpenBTS, we then really need to find a way to run both network at once and have them cooperate properly at all levels. Switching back and forth at 29c3 was acceptable as a first try but it's not something I would be keen to repeat, just creates confusion for the user. (and implementing the *#100# USSD on openbts should also be done for consistency). Cheers, Sylvain From alexander.chemeris at gmail.com Fri Jan 25 23:31:56 2013 From: alexander.chemeris at gmail.com (Alexander Chemeris) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 03:31:56 +0400 Subject: GSM at OHM2013 In-Reply-To: References: <20130124230621.17649.qmail@stuge.se> <20130125201154.28663.qmail@stuge.se> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:59 AM, Sylvain Munaut <246tnt at gmail.com> wrote: > As for OpenBTS, we then really need to find a way to run both network > at once and have them cooperate properly at all levels. Switching back > and forth at 29c3 was > acceptable as a first try but it's not something I would be keen to > repeat, just creates confusion for the user. (and implementing the > *#100# USSD on openbts should also be done for consistency). Well, the biggest issue here is SMS routing. IIRC, everything else is doable pretty quickly. But SMS routing between two networks require a proper two-headed SMSC. Peter, have you had any progress on the SMSC since then? -- Regards, Alexander Chemeris. CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ??? ??????? http://fairwaves.ru From peter at stuge.se Fri Jan 25 23:36:19 2013 From: peter at stuge.se (Peter Stuge) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:36:19 +0100 Subject: GSM at OHM2013 In-Reply-To: References: <20130124230621.17649.qmail@stuge.se> <20130125201154.28663.qmail@stuge.se> Message-ID: <20130125233619.16052.qmail@stuge.se> Sylvain Munaut wrote: > We had a pretty good coverage at CCC camp AFAIR, so that should even > be enough. The MetroSite is powerful, but it's still somewhat of an open question how stable OpenBSC is with it. I had issues when testing last year. I'm looking forward to doing more testing this spring, to get an idea for OHM. > As for OpenBTS, we then really need to find a way to run both network > at once and have them cooperate properly at all levels. I don't know if it's widely known - for a short time we actually did have both networks running at once, and calling between them as well as into either one from DECT was working fine, all thanks to lcr supporting multiple interfaces. Really cool. SMS is the only missing piece, I hope we'll have the SMSC working this spring too. > (and implementing the *#100# USSD on openbts should also be done > for consistency). It looks like at least Max and I will go to EasterHegg end of March - maybe others too - that will be a nice environment both for some more experimental testing and to get some hacking done. :) //Peter From alexander.chemeris at gmail.com Sat Jan 26 08:42:47 2013 From: alexander.chemeris at gmail.com (Alexander Chemeris) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 12:42:47 +0400 Subject: GSM at OHM2013 In-Reply-To: <20130125233619.16052.qmail@stuge.se> References: <20130124230621.17649.qmail@stuge.se> <20130125201154.28663.qmail@stuge.se> <20130125233619.16052.qmail@stuge.se> Message-ID: Hi Peter, On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 3:36 AM, Peter Stuge wrote: > Sylvain Munaut wrote: >> As for OpenBTS, we then really need to find a way to run both network >> at once and have them cooperate properly at all levels. > > I don't know if it's widely known - for a short time we actually did > have both networks running at once, and calling between them as well > as into either one from DECT was working fine, all thanks to lcr > supporting multiple interfaces. Really cool. SMS is the only missing > piece, I hope we'll have the SMSC working this spring too. Could you document the setup you used? I kind of heard about this, but i think only very few people really know how this happened actually. And I believe this is an important knowledge which should be preserved and maintained. >> (and implementing the *#100# USSD on openbts should also be done >> for consistency). > > It looks like at least Max and I will go to EasterHegg end of March - > maybe others too - that will be a nice environment both for some more > experimental testing and to get some hacking done. :) USSD support should be merged into OpenBTS P2.8 to be usable. We implemented it for OpenBTS P2.6, but this code is quite bit-rotten. I.e. it's something which definitely doable, but requires some preparation "off-line" before going to the event. Could we have an event page on a wiki to start collecting ToDo items like this? -- Regards, Alexander Chemeris. CEO, Fairwaves LLC / ??? ??????? http://fairwaves.ru From hej at c3pb.de Wed Jan 23 17:00:41 2013 From: hej at c3pb.de (Helge Jung) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 18:00:41 +0100 Subject: gsm network 4 eh13 In-Reply-To: <51001228.3090503@sec.t-labs.tu-berlin.de> References: <50FECF72.6090102@sec.t-labs.tu-berlin.de> <15b4cd97e044a0db11fad7ea632bfa5f@youngage.eu> <51001228.3090503@sec.t-labs.tu-berlin.de> Message-ID: Hi Max, I'm CC-ing the osmocom-event-orga list so the guys there can fill in the blanks ;) Am 2013-01-23 17:39, schrieb Max (?): >> Kevin offered that maybe the TU Berlin's equipment might be >> available for rental - >> I assume you can check that more easily than me ;) > > Yepp - there are at least 3 possibilities: > * sysmocom > * openbsc + nanobts > * openbts + umtrx/usrp > > I'll probably decide which one to use at the very last moment, once I > figure out list of experiments/features to try. One experiment we thought of was GPRS/IPv6 if that's interesting for you. But we're open for ideas :) >> Floor Plans will be available shortly. The venue is not that large >> so that most >> likely one base station will be sufficient to cover at least 90% of >> the area. > > Neat - if I'll be the only person working on gsm setup than I would > rather sacrifice coverage for simplified logistics :) > The basic setup will be one bts-box (umtrx, sysmocom, nanobts, > whatever) connected to my laptop and one radio box > (amplifier+antennae). > We can scale from that depending on amount of resources we will have. Sounds ok for me. Possibly we can also provide you with some (older) laptop or PC to run the GSM stuff on so that you don't need to sacrifice your laptop for that. >>> What'll be our connection to outside world - internet? sip? smth >>> else? >> >> Internet is available, yes - what did you expect? > > A bit more of a technical details :) > Will it be NAT? Block of ipv4? ipv6 addresses? We will get the IP-ranges of CCCV - there will be "direct" IPv4 and most likely IPv6 as well. > Do we plan to route calls to outside world? Via the POC, I think. Being able to call at least the DECT phones would definitely be nice. > Btw, some variants might require Gb ethernet connection to bts - it's > worth checking in advance. Gigabit Ethernet will be available in the POC/MOC room. That room is quite in the center of the venue so I assume the antenna can stay there? > During 29c3 we interacted with poc guys via lcr (linux-call-router) > with some code hacked in right on the spot - I'll need to get in > touch with someone > from poc team to sort this out in advance: know their dialplan and > such. > > There are also few questions: > * location access (it would be great to get access to the location > 1-2 days before the event to set everything up) It is possible to get access to the building one day in advance. The PoC team will be there as well and you will have a place near them (most likely in the same room). I don't know what your requirements regarding LCR are - its the same guys than an 29c3, so maybe check with Sascha? > * sim-cards (where can we get 200+ sim cards for participants and how > will we > distribute them?) Would it be possible that you can take along the database from the 29c3 so that SIM cards purchased there continue to work? Then we would need only a very small amount of SIM cards. >> P.S. We can switch to German, if you like. > Maybe for the next year - I've just started to learn it last October > :) Ok, I just assumed from "tu-berlin.de" that you're probably a German guy - no problem, just stick to English =) Regards, Helge.